That's my take on it. People just need to collect what they like. If the Zollmen market crashed, I might be tempted to buy one so I could check one out first hand. But it's not in my top ten wants. I'd rather have some Anraku.
maybe because i'm over the whole completist mentality & there's already too much stuff for me to collect..... but if that is what zollmen is doing, i could care less (although I can see how others can be taken advantage of). i'm also sort of glad I can't get everything and they're releasing alot of stuff.... so if i get lucky to get the figure at retail (which is in line w/ everything else being released) i'm super excited. if not, i know there's something really cool on the horizon that i may have a crack at. this is also speculation... but i think zollmen is not japan based. anyways, i like the mystery & will continue to collecting figures from their line that I enjoy
I think they are Japan based. And if they're not they sure made some serious inroads. Charactics, Ichibanboshi, Garimpo and now Dohatsuten- some cool Japanese Rock band (in Japan at least).
Still, if Zollmen is as shady as all that, why would EXO continue working exclusively with them? He seemed like an alright guy.
Unless.... Zollmen sold out to Bandai, and Maza is now being made in China by the truckloads and painted using radioactive paint that'll kill you in 2 days!
That is a little troubling. I'd definitely like to know more about what's going on with Zollmen. I REALLY dig the Exohead MMs and the Mini Galtan (is that Exo or Zoll?). I like the Maza a lot, but wouldn't pay more than $80 for one and it'd have to be an awesome colorway at that price. But yeah, Exohead seems to be a cool guy - his toys were so "cheap" at retail!
So this begs to be brought up now, Hey Flynn what do you think about BEMONs auctions ?? Is this worse than Zollmen or is BEMON being straight up at least ? Discuss
I thought the bemon/maza stuff was mentioned in a previous thread. Bemons have always been notoriously sought after by some and because you never knew when they were going drop...it added to the mystery and hype. Seems like zollmen attempted to take the 'bemon' model from the get go and hype it up, limit the releases, make it hard to get etc.
Miss you and Diana - they were fun Saturdays give her my best - and just to make you jealous we were in Carmel on Tuesday and it was beautiful
I am not certain people in Japan (like exo) are aware of or even care about the Zollmen hype machine. I like a lot of the Zollmen toys and I own a handful of them. When a toy company intentionally creates false demand and allows aftermarket prices to skyrocket and generate hype it is usually a good idea to step back and take a deep breath. Companies like RxH released tiny runs when they started because they couldn't sell 20 figures at a time. Their fan base didn't justify large runs so they had to make small runs to survive. If a toy company cannot develop a fan base large enough to sell 30+ figures of most releases (at retail) they will probably go broke or give up. Since it is basically impossible to cover cost selling runs of 5 or 25 I think collectors should be weary of companies that choose to follow this path; especially when they could sell many more. When a company chooses this path and sells figures in the aftermarket at huge markups I think they are taking advantage of toy collectors for profit and glory. This practice has horrible side effects. It encourages the worst tendencies in collectors and negatively effects the toy community. It attracts new people to the community who tend to be less interesting and enjoyable than your average toy geek. Collectors who won't or can't throw big money around can lose interest or find less joy in the hobby. Other companies lose retail business when toy budgets are blown on yja and the money ends up in the hands of dealers/flippers. If Super7 had released the gid with silver mother in a run size of 50 or more at $100-125 we would still have a few in inventory. If Zollmen ever do a regular size release I think the aftermarket will collapse and many people would lose interest. Most people would be happy enough with one of these in their collection. I am all for small runs when they are economically necessary. I am all for small runs when there is a reason behind them like art shows, lucky bags, toy conventions, Flynn's first born, etc. I think the Zollmen release plan sucks and I think people who fall for the hype are suckers (not collectors). The rumor is a board member and SF local is behind Zollmen. Since I cannot confirm this rumor I will not disclose his name. If it is true I hope he comes out of the shadows and addresses this issue. As far as release days go; we still have them but most people won't get their ass up and to the store by 11am unless they think showing up in person is the only way to get a toy. I remember way back when I was the only one person who showed up to some release days. Sadly, I can't recall who used to show up all the time. Maybe Kurt will help me out with some names. (sorry for the rant but it took me forever to edit this down. Be happy I didn't post the long version)
A couple of things Look who we get a post from! I was just telling the story of our day at the Toronado last night haha! Thanks for the clarification Glenn. From what I saw on my trip to Japan, there were more than a few mazas sitting around because people over there are not going to pay that much money for a new toy that just came out, and when i say "that money" i mean $300-$500. I wouldn't mind having one in my collection, but i wouldn't pay huge money for it and I certainly wouldn't pay more than "retail" for it. I, on the other hand, am guilty of throwing down some crazy money for toys (I think we all are at some point) so I really am throwing stones in a glass house and can't complain about the hype. As for release days, when I joined this board I loved seeing all of the toy days you folks had and was jealous that a group of friends got together and hung out. Thankfully I have now had the chance to meet a lot of folks here and have some of those experiences of my own. At this point for me, the toys are almost secondary to being able to hang out with my friends and geek out. A lot of people have hinted at it recently, but buying what you like is so much more important than buying what you think is cool or other people liked.
this sure sounds a lot like the bemon selling model to me!! could somebody please give exact examples of where/when zollmen sold figures on the aftermarket like this?? it is funny how the knives are all drawn towards zollmen but nobody will dare challenge bemon on this issue (when they are blantantly guilty of this "so called" crime)... it makes you wonder about all the double standards & "follow the herd" mentality that takes place in this little scene (and the whole world in general)... this is one thing that consistantly bothers me,,,how people will gather around a cause but turn a blind eye when it suites them.. this makes me think of the flipping crusaders out there..who will attack when an unknown person sells directly on the aftermarket but will then turn around and sell a $60 toy for $400 to another collector a couple years down the road under the guise of "rfso & hooking up".... let's be honest...the person who turns around and sells for immediate profit & the big-time collector who makes a 600% profit a year or two down the road are really no different...they are both looking to profit...although to the eyes of the scene one is a scumbag & the other is a saint... to be honest,,,unless you have never & will never make on ounce of profit off your collection & buys,,,then there is no room to criticize others for what & how they sell their goods....it is everybody's personal decision to decide what price they will buy for.. as for zollmen,,i personally think it may be a stroke of marketing genius in such a small insular scene (how long it will last & how profitable it will ultimately be remains to be seen) while all the complaints and jabs reek of sour grapes to me..... we must remember that we as a collective set the tone,,pricing & hype for ultra-limited ultra-hyped goods..
Oooooh I love toy gossip I actually thought to myself once "If a non-Japanese wanted to start a vinyl toy company, I bet they'd get more 'hype' and better sales if they hid themselves and claimed to be a Japanese vinyl company without a face vs. some guy we know regardless of the sculpt" and if the rumor of Zollmens origins are true BOY would that be interesting. Since I've never paid ass-prices for Zollmen, I can care less. I like the sculpts, and it'd be sad if it all came to be that way though I'd finally jump on some of them if it all crashed. On Bemon, I don't know enough to make a call. At first my thoughts of his YJA sales were "well at least he's getting the direct cash instead of a flipper AND we the buyers are the guilty ones since we set the price by bidding so high." BUT my mind is changing more and more on that, to assume he'd not know he could get that much is naive and it makes the whole situation much sadder. There's other ways to get your toys to real fans and NOT have as many flippers nab them up. Having a few big runs now and then in your micro-run attack is one way. I think the BEST thing about all of this is in these tougher economic times, with more and more bullshit like this sneaking in and more and more hype-machines being created the awareness of "collect what you like" seems to finally be breaking through to some people. Most of us just CAN'T afford to by whatever we like whenever for our collections. So we make little rules and we have to stick to them mostly. Whether that rule is "only this company" or "this color" or even "only X amount of money a month" it's making us all think more about what WE want vs. hype and what we THINK we need. I've had to trim a lot of fat off of my collection, some because I need the money and some because after that money cut some things just didn't fit and it was time to buckle down on some lines. Blah Blah Blah, whatever.
I have to disagree with this somewhat Glenn. It is possible to make and cover cost off small runs. Its being done right now by a few members. There are ways around spending big money on getting figures made. Its how I will be able to get my toy made. This advise may go for larger toy companies with the means and fan following like Gargamel, RxH etc.. who have the means of getting it done so I see your point. Personally when I get up and running it will be small runs because I will be painting, designing , packaging and shipping everything on my own. And this will be while I try to find another full time job. So unless I hire someone there is no way I could do larger runs. But it is possible to make profit off of 15-20 piece run sizes, this is a fact.
Jeb you might be my hero for what you said above! I was going to respond to this thread again but you pretty much covered it. Collectors will buy what they want as long as they can afford it's a simple as that. If they can't they'll soon be saddled with debt and learn their lesson. Profit on the other hand is all speculative. I don't think you can begrudge one company, while not using that same implication with many others that have used the same sales model (bemon definitely has). Do we have actual proof that Zollmen is holding back some stock and releasing it in after market as a flipper? Bloodrinker 6969 I thought the same thing many times (about why doesn't someone just start a company under a japanese guise to sell vinyl).
exactly,,if bemon were not looking to maximize profit of his releases,,he would sell them on YJA with a generous BIN price (slightly higher than retail to cover the costs of the auction)...to possibly get them to an audience who would never have a shot at them through guerilla-type sales at select tokyo shops... but he is selling them auction style to make the same profit as any other flipper/re-seller...is this ok?? that is certainly debatable.. to attack zollmen for releasing small numbers & creating a buzz and then turn a blind eye to bemon's selling doesn't seem fair to me..
I don't see this the same in the case of Bemon compared to what Zollmen is doing. I have five hand painted Bemon. Two of them came directly from S7 from Isaac and Brian. I paid a whopping $125.00 each for them. The other three I tracked down when I was in Japan and while I paid a bit more they were pretty close to that price. Bemon has been doing this for a few years now and last I checked he was pretty much a one man operation, didn't sell to the USA and just had his own thing going. When the factory painted ones came out they were always priced on the fair side of things, the same with the clears. But at some point he's gotta say to himself to let the market dictate the figures price. His reputation was built over unique designs and quality and it took time to actually watch them rise in price even if it wasn't a lot of time. Zollmen is trying to do that right out of the gate by dribbling the product right into the after market and turns out may not even be a Japanese company. That's just my take on all this.
Well the problem with him making them nice BIN prices is how many would just be snatched up by flippers than? It's a hard line with Bemon, that's why I'm a bit torn on it all. We could always say make a list (actually doesn't he have an email list, I thought I heard that?), but than people would complain about that too. I get what you're saying, though, Jeb, why question 1 company and not another, it's a valid point and I agree. But I'm reserving my judgment/opinion on both, I don't know enough. I've got 3 Bemon, 1 was a killer trade, 1 I paid ass-price for on YJA and the other I got from a board member for a "not the best, but not the worst" price. I'll take any Bemons S7 has for $125 though
many of us drooled over the mother sculpt when it was posted on exohead's blog, way before any hype-driven secret marketing schemes or whatever began to take place. i don't own a mother for the simple reason that i won't pay that much for a new toy, but the fact remains that the sculpt is great and thats the main reason people want them. the market prices and release strategies all came after the initial sentiments of "damn that toy rules!" the collectors with too much money that throw wads of cash at zollmen auctions are the real problem imo
I didn't get the Bemon love, I don't get the Mother love . . . the hype passed me by . . . happy to be stuck in my Basehead bubble!
