Possible Solution to Bots/Flippers etc.

Ok, grumpy Gatiio. I think your position is a valid one for you to have, but I also don't think that "quit yer bitchin'" is necessarily the answer either.

There have been plenty of makers that have openly expressed concern over where their work ends up, and have been trying to make things more fair by leveling the playing field for all. If anything, this thread is just a think tank to see if there's a way we can help the ones that do care. I don't think this came from a place of entitlement at all. It's a broken system but it can get better and it has been, steadily and in a very short amount of time.

 

I definitely see and understand gatiio's standpoint, but I don't at all see it as coming from a place of entitlement(entitled attitudes make themselves pretty apparent), or that people are saying they deserve it more than others. I took it and see it as the overall idea that we'd rather see these toys go to legitimate and real collectors and not flippers/hype beasts as a whole. I'm never salty about missing a drop or lotto, but I admittedly get bummed when I see a try being flipped that could've gone to Ecko Mike or Toothaction David(or any other longstanding member here/in collecting). So if there was some way to at least make it harder for bots and flippers, I'm all for it.

 

From experience, artists that I've alerted on IG about their stuff being flipped were either pissed as hell or had a "oh come on, not another flip" reaction... Yet no matter which, they were thankful of being alerted about it, and most of them outwardly told me that they now put that buyer on their blacklist.
I do really think a lot of toy makers care about where there toys are going. Just look at Gargamel's blog, and see how much contempt they have for people who flip. Sure, not every maker is as passionate about stopping the flip, but I think to a certain degree, everyone wants something that they made to be appreciated.
There will always be a sense of entitlement with shop drops and such, but when you see a large portion of a limited run of toys popping up on eBay, it probably gets tiring as hell. It's even spreading to non-hype toys now, and that's what has been really grinding my gears. I don't know if they're new to sofubi or what, but their inflated prices are annoying as hell.

 

Maybe it is entitlement. But tell me how If you go on a forum just for the toys, join a community around the toys, have a shelf of the toys, PM, email and talk to their makers as a friend, that you aren't more deserving than a flipper who has no interest other than the fact that he just found out what is valuable and is trying to make money. You ARE more deserving if you're a true head. Everyone is trying to find a solution to this constantly. Why do you think there are lotteries, one per household rules, limited releases for only those on the mailing list, etc...the makers are trying to give everyone a shot. Flippers may be an inevitability, but it's not one people are okay with, and one they don't stop trying to make solutions for.

Seriously, if you have to take email applications why wouldn't that work? I have had to sort through 2-500 emails a day for data entry at $9 an hour. Take the time to see what people say about your art. Your deserving fans would be like "What Up! You know who it is!" the flippers might just hang themselves by their responses, if they even had the guts to write. If you felt a certain person got every release lately, you could simply decide that person needs to give up their spot for a while. I know. It's kind of playing God, but How long did it take me to write this post? 3 minutes? I think people could spend that long expressing why they want this toy. If there are only 100 or less of an item or run as many releases are, I don't think it would take too much more than a morning sorting through emails and making a list for the makers. I know it's work but I think worth it. It might even be fun to see what people say. Limit the essay to 200 words or less so you don't have to read long essays when you have 500 applicants.

 

Just do what Medicom is doing - make enough to match preorders. Stop limited runs. Everyone that wants one gets one. You collect the money in advance to pay for the production run. That way everyone is happy. The manufacturers don't have to worry about making large productions runs that won't sell, thereby losing money. Of course, there will always be those who skipped the preorder, only to want one later and have to pay inflated prices online. But that typically won't reach the absurd levels of limited run items.

 

I'm not saying, 'quit your bitching' so much as I am saying every few months someone opens a thread like this one and the same convos take place. The pitchforks come out and no one person seems to agree on anything. It's not a defense for flipping it's a perception of how this conversation happens ad nauseam.

Quentor, while I see your point and think it's quite novel. It is a bit on the heavy handed side if you think about how much work a toy producer goes through. To ask that on top of that the sit through submissions is, again, a request that demands too much of someone already working hard. Please consider that this is in no way making the makers rich and asking this extra load of work (however much the price is per hour) is unfair.

Yeah, let's inform them and voice our concerns and knowledge of flipper individuals so at least that person or group can be black listed. That has been standard practice for a while. Had anyone looked up in the search engine a combo of the words associated with flipping they would have seen these convos and added onto those spaces and not creating a new, almost wholly identical in concept, thread.

My point is that for this being a place where y'all come and talk and share info and what-not, nobody is using the search engine to add to the same threads and avoiding the poor localization of content. That's all.

Glenn, I know you come from a good place and mean well and want to be proactive, but it really is a difficult matter in many areas not only toys. I've already stated my take as to what we as collectors could do to ameliorate toys getting flipped. Although, now that I think of it I should have just written that in the older flipper stopping threads.

 

My point exactly ultra.

 

Some of this is just silly...

many toy makers do this part time, I personally work over 40 hours a week at a non-toy job, we also have families, and the regular shit to do that just life requires, and we just don't have time to wade through hundreds of emails trying to determine who should get the toy.

So new guys don't deserve a toy? We should only supply guys who have been collecting our toys for years. We were all new once. Shit is exploding this year, with social media and the craze taking over China, Hong Kong, Taiwan. It's good, it means there will be a future. Closing the gates isn't the answer. Newsflash, 95% of the people on this board have flipped a toy privately, and most of the people who would declare themselves a devout collector of so and so have at some point sold so and sos toy to finance whatever.

I agree about increasing runs, but as stated earlier, sometimes you just don't have the time, or even the patience. If you've ever painted over 30 toys, you understand it starts to feel like sweatshop labor. But I agree do what you can, even if it's just adding on 10 or 15 figures. We aren't all medicom paying a full time painter to paint all day for us, but as demand increases, we should try and do what we can.

And lastly, saying that a toys only merit is hype is insulting, to makers and collectors. It's extremely hard to manufacture hype, many have tried and many have failed, eventually people get wise. There are those toys like a HxS figure or Nag that in hand, are just actually pretty fucking nice, so are MVH and PK toys, and the Secret Base Pushead marbles, and many others, and that's why people want them. Because they are nice. So it's not fair to tell people to just buy toys that just aren't as nice or that they don't like as much, because they are just blinded by hype. Who wants to look at their collection and think I have a bunch of shit I just think is ok or is crap, but at least it was cheap and easy to get.

 

I once tried to write an essay to win a contest, but then realized im terrible at writing and went back to playing sega genesis. I don't think i'd be qualified for that bemon...

 

Always love hearing feedback from artists. I think a lot of people view this hobby as "as long as I get mine" but when they don't, there is always someone to blame. I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you have to own EVERYTHING in a limited edition hobby, be prepared to be constantly disappointed.

Joe,

What do you think of pre-order larger runs for blanks that are just 1 per sculpt a year or something? I know I'd LOVE to see some artists do some open/larger run blanks. It eliminates the big paint job "sweatshop labor" issue you mention, lets fans score toys way easier, gives paint artists opportunities to hone their craft/work on dream projects and fans we also have 100% unique pieces to their collection. I honestly see no downside except for flippers who now see their market shrink by a good bit.

 

They are nice, but there are loads of other stuff out there that is just as nice, if you care to think and look. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but your statement is a little insulting to the other companies out there. Not that I care. More cheap crap for me.

Also: open runs are boring, even if they're effective in some cases. Preorder. Wait. Preorder. Wait. Zzzzzzz.

 

After considering the feedback, especially from Joe, I really like the open preorder idea the best. Kind of what medicom is doing. Yeah, sifting through emails is probably not most people's cup of tea. My OCD ass would love it.

I think that I am just going to get more serious about going to shows. If I planned right I could probably afford to go to 3 shows a year. I'm not a big fan of NYCC or SDCC because me and crowds don't mix. But a show at Stranger Factory or TAG or something, where my favorite artists will be, camping out for the best spot in line....

I mean if you want a payoff for effort, this is really the only somewhat sure bet. Plus chances are you'll get a dope one-off or something not everyone has. Something truly special to you.

 

I agree. plus people will still miss them and they could end up being sought after anyways. sludge dx, blobpus Ollie...!!
I enjoy having to pay attention, trying to score toys and hunting toys down to finally get the satisfaction of scoring it.. and actually doing research because im passionate about this shit. I'm a collector, not a buyer. I can miss some stuff.. I'd rather see quality, fully thought out releases. theres a ton of Buta toys I was sure I'd never own, and then one day you get a PM or something..

 

Please don't make me write fucking essays just to obtain an art toy. If i have to do that every single time i might as well slit my own god damn throat with my combat knife! I hate essays sooooooooooooooooooo much. XD

 

No, he's saying

 

That's the rub, though. I personally don't understand people who buy 90 colorways of the same fucking toy, but it is what it is.

As for waiting, isn't that standard for so many releases now? This is not the hobby for impatient people.

That is literally the case with absolutely everything. You'll never make EVERYONE happy; we're just spitballing ideas on making MORE people happy.

Mondo started doing this with 1-2 releases a year. I would think the same thing COULD work here. Announce a toy on Monday with a 2-hour pre-order window a week later. Gives people time to plan, but keeps the runs small-ish but still made-to-order for most people. And aftermarket would be cheaper accordingly for those determined to get a release that missed out, and with more competition from both direct sales and other flippers, flips would be less of an issue.

My understanding is with a lot of shows you still have the lotto system, so being first in line doesn't mean you get whatever you want.

 

^ True enough, but most do get something they like. Some places do give out line tickets. I've been to a few at Rotofugi. First in line gets first pick and on down the line. It's not a guarantee but it's pretty much your best shot. All I'm saying.

 

Lotto's and Pre-orders seem like the best way to go currently. Especially for first time runs of a particular piece.

 

I personally don't like pre-orders for a few reasons.

I take money from 200 plus people, hey that's great that's a good payday. But then I'm at the mercy of the factory. What if they send vinyl that isn't up to my standards because they tried to rush my order. Then I have to send it back, or deliver a sub par product.
And also, that just seems unispiring to me, if you're excited about a toy you want to pull it in a bunch of colors and paint it a bunch of ways, and have fun with it too.

Shipping 200 plus boxes is also a pain, but doable. lately I've started working with Lulubell to distribute, so I can up numbers and make more. I think as a maker you just have to find reasonable distribution methods that help you increase numbers, It's probably going to take more time to pack and ship 200 plus blanks, as it would be to paint and ship a standard run of 40 figures.

 

I've got a chunk of Dream Rocket and Cronic too. I'm using those names as they tend to get the most grief. I agree there is under valued stuff out there, but there is great stuff, and people get frustrated and start tossing the hype label trying to diminish it.

There's plenty of unhyped stuff that's harder to find than "hyped" stuff, can anyone help me with some Nakayoshi? I've been coming up empty handed for years.

 

It's a good thing as you said above Joe! All sorts of businesses have to adjust when they get bigger. Your name is getting bigger and bigger. Lulubell is a fine choice, Amy is tops.

But seriously, I think you highlight the reality of the problem nicely. It doesn't pay enough for toys to be your whole life, so you still need your 9 to 5, but the time it takes to do this stuff is a full time job. Meanwhile collectors act like you just sit around and paint a few toys here and there and are millionaires. Like that is all you do. I get it.

Still I remember when Gremlins came out I got a sneak peek, like preview passes. I was just a kid, but I told everyone how awesome it was. I fell for the movie. For a few weeks I was the shit. I knew what they didn't know. Then the movie blew up when it came out and there were plush dolls, Gremlins stuff everywhere and I was all butthurt. I was just like "Fuck this, I saw it first." So I get how ridiculous it sounds, but it is what it is. When you have been a big fan of something there is a sentimentality there. I don't agree that we are entitled because of that but people feel that way!

A lot of artists begin to make a blacklist, or do research to find out who is flipping their stuff. You're pretty much sorting through who deserves it at that point anyways...