More sacrilege from Hollywood

Discussion in 'Whatever' started by ultrakaiju, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. ultrakaiju

    ultrakaiju Die-Cast Staff Member

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    Perhaps I have ranted here already about the terrible movies coming out of studios (large and small) in the US, I can't remember. The whole re-imagining/re-make/revisiting/prequel/sequel/live action/Americanised version/book adaptations/TV series movie/etc, etc is really becoming too much. Whatever happened to original story ideas? But today I read some truly disheartening news:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/story/2011/08/24/kurosawa-rights-deal.html

    I really, really, don't want to see this happen. And the fact that hidden in this article is also a note about the Weinstein Co. already having four Kurusawa projects in the pipeline makes me sad for cinema today. Yes, I know, there is a massive market for Hollywood blockbusters, and some small 'films' still seem to get made on occasion, and I am not knocking the appeal for 'movies' for simple entertainment, but there is a reason that Kurusawa has influenced so many directors and his films are studied as masterpieces in their own right. I say ask yourself, do people re-paint the Mona Lisa or The Starry Night? Would you build another Great Pyramid or Tower of Pisa? Re-write Doestoyevsky or Kafka? I just don't get this. These things are icons of our history and culture, and should not be messed with.
     
  2. Rich

    Rich Die-Cast

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    Bottom line, in Hollywood there is no such thing that is untouchable. What ever can be bought will be, then rushed and slapped together and spit out without a second thought. They still think original films are to risky. And with the majority of viewers it is. Sadly so many people cant tell the difference between a good film and trash. No one wants to listen to well written dialogue or well paced action. People want flashy trashy, crappy fueled music video crap. I realized this when a good friends girlfriend said that Transformers was her favorite film of all time. I seriously lost all respect for her opinions on the spot forever. But this is the new normal.

    Kurosawa films are by far some of the best films ever made. Studios can buy rights and make crappy remakes but will never come close to the originals. If they for a second think they can they should get out of movie making.

    This is sad though, esp. the seven samurai remake. This IS my favorite movie. I couldnt even imagine this in color, or with different actors. Maybe if they got Quentin Tarantino to remake it I would be interested. But even then not really...
     
  3. Lixx

    Lixx Mr. Grumpy™

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    Real intelligent people can always tell the difference between original works of art and "hype driven I've run out of ideas this might get me some street cred if I add CGI and a hip hop star" hollywood bullshit. Unfortunately for most people, and especially with today's youth, they are so brainwashed and marketed to that they would not know something good if it hit them in the face. It takes an attention span to actually sit through an older film. I do mean film, not a movie. Rich, I know the type you speak of. I deal with them at work all the time. I makes me cringe when they talk about popular culture. I might come off as an elitist snob but it's not really like that. I'd love to convert people over to team intelligent but they don't want to separate from the pack...
     
  4. toothaction

    toothaction Team Tsubu Staff Member

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    do people re-paint the Mona Lisa or The Starry Night?
    No, but both are featured in a TV plot every year of two, and both sell as mouse pads and fridge magnets every day!
    Would you build another Great Pyramid or Tower of Pisa?
    Look to Vegas. Then look away.
    Re-write Doestoyevsky or Kafka?
    I'm reminded of an article I read a couple years ago in The Believer, about Moby Dick: in half the time. Basicaly the same thing as the original, but with all the weird bits shaved out. Y'know, cause that's boring.
     
  5. audiodifficulties

    audiodifficulties S7 Royalty

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    I immediately thought of Vegas. lol
    I like to think of vegas as a giant over grown mini golf course.
     
  6. evom

    evom Mini Boss

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    :lol: happens to me pretty often.
     
  7. toothaction

    toothaction Team Tsubu Staff Member

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    In 1984, when I was 12, I enjoyed the hell out of Battle Beyond the Stars. When later that year my dad sat me down with The Magnificent Seven I immediately recognized the premise and blathered endlessly at him about how sweet the video game movie was. He responded by telling me to shut up and watch, telling me after the credits rolled all about The Seven Samurai. A few years later I finally saw a VHS of the original, and have since followed it to laser disc and then DVD release to DVD release. It's clear that Kurosawa's picture wins on all fronts, but I've a pretty high tolerance for watching it's premise re-imagined.

    That said, a modern straight remake? YGBFKM!
     
  8. evom

    evom Mini Boss

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    the only remake I've ever been excited for ever, is "Straw Dogs" comin out soon. I think its only cause I dig the actor in it though, and I dont expect it to be even close to as good as the OG at all. but shit! all they make now is remakes and movies off of books.
     
  9. Dean

    Dean Prototype

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    Maybe I'm wrong but I assume you're being cynical about the "boring" part. However that is a common complaint about the book's long passages about ships, whales, processing blubber, and how it all relates to bible scripture, the universe, and everything. :) Still, those aspects are inherent to the novel, its time, and its author. They're a huge part of what make it "the great American novel," and they're actually not boring if you're trying to comprehend the whole thing and have the "out to sea" experience that Melville intended, as opposed to just following the story line. To re-write "Moby Dick" in a way that strips it down to the most basic narrative robs the work of its epic and even psychedelic power. Sounds like reading Cliffs' Notes and pretending you had the experience of reading the books they explicate.

    Most of Kurosawa's films are more than just great stories. Especially in the first half of his career, they had much to do with postwar issues, the loss of the old Japanese identity and Kurosawa's moral wrangling with the birth of the new industrial/corporate Japan. "Drunken Angel" makes that really clear early on. Later movies did the same with more focussed finesse. A movie like that reset in a contemporary milieu just wouldn't have the same resonance. In the hands of an excellent director, it *might* translate reasonably well, but ultimately, what's the point? The original works are the thing, all that they are.

    There might be some band out there that could do a fairly decent cover of the Stones' "Sympathy for the Devil" but the original zeitgeist of that song's times is long lost. It holds up as an amazing song and performance to this day, but it's really about the sense of everything going nuts in the '60s, when invoking the devil in the manner that the songwriters did would have had a much more insidious and shocking impact.

    I'm trying to argue against my conservatism here by reminding myself that I like Soderbergh's reinterpretation of "Solaris" and that many people think the Richard Gere "remake" of Godard's "Breathless" is "better than the original," but it's not happening with Kurosawa. Let masterpieces be masterpieces and try to go make one of your own.
     
  10. ---NT---

    ---NT--- Prototype

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    Well said! Before I read Moby Dick I was warned about its "tediousness", but found the minutiae to be captivating and integral to the story. There's a reason it's a classic.
     
  11. kaijuphotobooth

    kaijuphotobooth Toy Prince

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    This reminds me of the forward to one of the Usagi Yojimbo comics forwards written by Alejandro Jodorowsky, in which he talks about Stan Sakai's character being a 'worthy' hero contrasted with a deep-seeded resentment towards Disney characters.

    I think it will be very difficult to tune American audiences into Kuwosawa's deep cultural connections with the audiences of those movies in Japan during that era. The idea of the 'ronin' is a completely alien one in American culture. The closest thing we may have is the Western 'outlaw' who didn't answer to anyone, and lived outside of the highly ritualized/socially moderated codes of the samurai.

    My personal favorites, Yojimbo, Sanjuro and Seven Samurai seem damn near impossible to re-create. I'm surprised someone thinks there's an audience for that. I did just see 13 assassins, which is Takashi Miike's period takedown of a crazy imperial tyrant, which I liked a lot. It pays homage to Kurosawa, obviously, but doesn't ape on it in my opinion.

    Also, later period Kurosawa flicks like Kagemusha were produced by George Lucas and western movie directors who loved his movies. Even that is more fitting than re-creations. I hope they kill this project in the boardroom and we can just enjoy the amazing Criterion re-issues of the classics on DVDs. Or even if they sponsored more revival screenings at local theaters. Here in Portland, there are some revival screenings, but they don't seem to be well attended, which is too bad because these films are great.
     
  12. toothaction

    toothaction Team Tsubu Staff Member

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    I admit my sentence was clumsy, and I wish I had a link to the full article I was citing, but...

    The butchering of seminal works is something that makes me sad, always, and angry, often, but if I gave into cynicism I'd never make the efforts I do to dig for the source of whatever it is that intrigues me. The case of Melville being streamlined for the modern sensibility is absurd to the nth degree, as I truly believe the book informs said sensibility more powerfully (and did so much earlier) than many influences cited as the beginnings of post-modernism. The novels' combination of epic story, involved detail and fevered imaginings at length set it part from everything written before it. It's the first brilliant study in digressions that I am aware of.

    To cut out the chaff is to emasculate the highest art further than even decades of demonizing it for being "long" has.


    So this isn't a complete derailment --- Many people in the homeland hated Kurasawa's works for being too American.
     
  13. ---NT---

    ---NT--- Prototype

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    Well at least old movies are still getting screened. I just bought my tickets to see a 70mm screening of 2001: A Space Odyssey at Cinerama! :D Sooooo excited - it's been 10 years since I've experienced it in that format!
    Also giving consideration to seeing Lawrence of Arabia in the same format/theater just prior to 2001. And a more distant consideration to Tron. Unfortunately it's being screened on a different day, and I'm not sure if I'm up for a mid-week drive to Seattle.
    Anyway - all Seattleites should check out Cinerama's 70mm Film Fest!
     
  14. blessedxcursed

    blessedxcursed Fresh Meat

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    I'd like to call this the "George Lucas phenominom"... it's no good i tell you, no good at all...
     
  15. toothaction

    toothaction Team Tsubu Staff Member

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    Well, Star Wars was in good part a remake of The Hidden Fortress...
     
  16. ultrakaiju

    ultrakaiju Die-Cast Staff Member

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    Speaking of the George Lucas phenomenon, take a quick look at this:

    http://www.avclub.com/articles/george-lucas-continues-war-on-puppets-by-adding-ne,60911/

    Turns out he can't even leave his own stuff alone. Oh well, as far as this is concerned, doesn't really affect me in the least, because there is no way he could really make that movie any worse. Until the 'original' editions are released (which will probably not be on the upcoming BD I am sure) I will stick with my authentic versions, I don't care if I have to keep a VHS player or laserdisc just to watch those movies.
     
  17. SaintOfSpinners

    SaintOfSpinners Side Dealer

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    At least the States have done better versions of Shameless and Skins. Now if we could only remake that Dr Who nonsense.
     
  18. COOP

    COOP Comment King

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    The Star Wars/Hidden Fortress connection has already been pointed out...

    Seven Samurai has already been remade/reimagined/whatever at least twice - Magnificent Seven and Battle Beyond the Stars. I know there's something else, but I can't think of it at the moment.

    Yojimbo was the basis of A Fistful of Dollars and Last Man Standing - which itself was also a riff on Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest, which is where Kurosawa got the idea for Yojimbo in the first place!

    Kurosawa's RAN was a reinterpretation of King Lear.

    A good or bad remake doesn't hurt the prestige or quality of the original film.

    Honestly, I'm much more distressed about Ridley Scott revisiting Alien and Blade Runner.
     
  19. toothaction

    toothaction Team Tsubu Staff Member

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    Duh. Lucas himself did the video intro for the DVD, so it's not like I thought I was revealing a giant secret to the world. Just mentioning it, fella.
    For a little under a second I thought your post was serious and a hot flash of anger lit up under my eyes...
     
  20. Dean

    Dean Prototype

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    Yup, an amazing one, financed in part by Uncle George Lucas and his friend FF Coppola. And that movie endured some criticism in Japan for a bit of "Western-style" score on the soundtrack which contrasted with Takemitsu's Kabuki-style score for most of the film. Kurosawa-san reasoned that it sounded right to his ear and had the correct emotional pitch, but it's fair to say that the movie includes several nods to being an international production, starting with the inspiration that COOP cites.

    The Kurosawa influences on Lucas are frequently mentioned in reference to "Star Wars," but the first time I saw the so-called Musashi Miyamoto "Samurai Trilogy" of Hiroshi Inagaki I thought "Lucas must have watched a lot of Samurai movies on acid when he was at USC." :) There is a sequence in one of those films in which past spiritual masters of Musashi appear to him in a ghostly fashion to advise things like "trust your feelings!" It's very clear that the old sensei's garb was the basis for Ben Kenobi's SW costume.

    Also a good point, but what is Skullbrain if a fanboi can't whine? 8)

    I wonder when Miike's version of "Hara Kiri" will come out? I'm very interested but skepticism that the movie can be remade effectively is pretty rampant.
     
  21. COOP

    COOP Comment King

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    I was acknowledging that YOU mentioned it. Sheesh.
     
  22. toothaction

    toothaction Team Tsubu Staff Member

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    More sacrilege from Hollywood
    Sorry, man. Tender tits. Good list of mentions, I shouldn't have assumed you were down dressing.
    Watching various flames of late must be making me paranoid... seriously, sorry!
     
  23. MattyBoomBatty

    MattyBoomBatty Addicted

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    Whaaat, you mean you guys didn't love the remake of Godzilla? MADNESS! ;)
    Yeah, I'm totally kidding. I think the worst thing I saw was Cashern (not technically Hollywood but a prime example of artistic license), what were they thinking?
    Hollywood's penchant for artistic license is ridiculous. If it's not broke, don't fix it. Final fantasy anyone?
     
  24. ultrakaiju

    ultrakaiju Die-Cast Staff Member

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  25. BloodDrinker6969

    BloodDrinker6969 Die-Cast

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    I heard about this last week. Lame but I'm not surprised. Honestly I think he should just KEEP adding weird shit until it's a joke. I have the release of DVD's that had the original untouched versions on them so as long as those stay safe I'm happy. I've never played the "Special Special Edition" sides of the DVD's.

    Maybe he should make the Cantina band rap in the next touch up? Or have edit in Boba Fett living BUT THEN saving the day at the end of Jedi instead of Luke and when he takes off his helmet he doesn't look like Jango but like Han because, SPOILER, HE'S HANS CLONE SOME HOW WHO CARES KEEP ADDING SHIT!
     

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