Seriously, what's the point of harassment? If this guy is on active duty, surely the military will have to deal with him, as well they should. Disclosing personal information about his friends or family won't accomplish anything good.
Roger has a point, there are a lot of internet hoaxes and gaffs like the one referenced. However, even if this is a hoax, the bottom line is that it is out there and young impressionable kids and teens love to copy this stuff. Youtube is full of copies and gaffs and the last thing you need is a couple of teens thinking they are funny by doing the same thing just to get hits on a myspace or youtube page. When I see this sort of stuff that looks real it has be treated as such. It really gets me thinking. I recall my days as a butcher in the early 90s (I cut meat, I didn't kill anything) and how eye opening it was after a few monthes there. Changed my life and diet to this day.
Would this justify sharing their family's personal information on the internet with the obvious intention of inciting harassment of the family? Of course not. Vigilante justice is, in addition to being illegal, a scattershot thing that all too often leads to the wrong people being "punished." Besides, while you and I may have moral objections to the needless torture and killing of animals in any number of contexts, if they're not illegal, then there's not a heck of a lot one can do besides legal advocacy, consciousness-raising, and political action. I guess what I'm saying is that while making this incident known has some good potential, what's going on with people sharing contact information of innocent people who may or may not be associated with the soldier is very wrong. Stalking and harassment of others won't punish, correct, or heal the heartless soldier.
Definitely Roger, sorry if it seemed otherwise. It'll be interesting to see if further news about this comes out.
Yeah, did some seaches and it appears its taken to life and found its way to CNN and serveral other places...
I want to say that I hope I never have to face judgement by 12 of my peers who have a 16-second grainy choppy video the size of a post-it note as the sole piece of evidence. Because right now I think there's at least 120,000 of them on the internet who would say "guilty" without even thinking of hitting the refresh button. I also want to say that I love this quote: "Everyone wants to be a fucking cop until they actually have to help someone."
Thats all me, from me. Its true, seriously. I did volunteer work on a crisis hotline in college and the gal who worked the phones with me on my shift would joke in the lighter moments on what our motto should be. Thats the best I could come up with. This world is sicker than I ever wanted to know. Compassion is hard sometimes.
I agree only to a certain degree cuz not everyone runs away from trouble. Sure it's human nature to look after our own asses but acts of selflessness do exist. Just like u're theory of not passing ultimate judgement based on a short clip, I prefer to think there are good people in this crazy world.
In part, I said that out of lighter moments on a crisis hotline for 6 years. Sort of like how doctors joke about death, but not as extreme. It releases the pressure, some of it was actually life or death stuff. I do have a pesimistic view of people and their motives usually, their inability to help themselves or reach out to resources as needed. Some how "97.6% of the population wants to be cop (or fucking cop) until they have to help out a portion of society that actually needs some help" has very little charm to me.
I'm far too lazy to harass this guy's family and Myspace friends plus I had work today and also had to punch out a miniature horse that annoy(ed) me with its mere existence. I'm not condoning harassing anyone but I have read an article which said Motari's mother and Myspace friends are bumming out a bit. I'm not saying its cool just its happening. I didn't post his address. Just relating something I read which might be a lie. It also said all the sites Myspace accounts etc of anyone that knew this guy openly are said to be down among other things. Anyway even if the videos a fake the Marines in question did it in uniform thus disgracing the Marine Corps. They're going to be regretting it. The Corps can court martial them for conduct unbecoming a Marine even if that was a stuffed animal. Today might be the tip of the iceberg for them. Maybe it won't though.
Krudler by no means did I mean to point any fingers at you, in case it wasn't clear. I'd read about the harassment elsewhere as well as here. Just wanted to say that in case of any misunderstanding.
Ahh cool I hoped it didn't seem like I thought it was ok to go after his mother. I think if that is really Motari the Marine's will deal with him but you never know. Being him would likely suck atm though he personally deserves it imho if he killed the puppy.
Personally I just find it odd that him elegedly throwing this puppy off of a cliff is what Americans really care about. I mean there should be a thread 8,000 pages long in here about how the war if killing things really upsets people. Besides that, there are countless vids and stories out there where soldiers have taken dogs and puppies they have found over there and rescued them and in some cases even gone through the trouble and expenses of flying them to America but these stories don't seem to make much news because they don't go against the grain. Poeple do bad things to animals on a daily basis be it Marine in Iraq or civilian in America. I still would want him on my team if someone was shooting at me. Just my .02
I think you miss the point why this upsets most people. Like children, animals, young ones at that (puppies/kittens) are often seen as innocent and helpless. Secondly, dogs are often viewed as members of peoples family. Third, it looks staged, looks planned out and done just for the video and we expect discipline and self control of people of uniform, they are trained accordingly. Thats largely why there is such a reaction, its not that people are ignoring the horrors of war like we ignore the horrors of the slaughterhouse, its just that this hits home to a lot of people. Its a cultural slap in the face. Im sure it wouldn't even make the news if it was an animal most people ate or it was just told and not on video.
I completly understand the point and to me it is upsetting as well. But then again neither you (as far as I know) or I have spent the last 8-12 months being shot at on a daily basis so we aren't completly numb.
That's more the act of sadists than battle hardened veterans. They seem to really be having a great time killing a puppy, no thousand yard stares there, no numbness just enjoyment in killing an innocent creature. Apparently the lowest common denominator of US citizens can "earn" a Marine uniform now and then disgrace them on video. If I was in a firefight those dumbasses are the last people I'd want on my side, they may be killers but they're incredibly unprofessional about it and I'd view them as a liability.
+1... I can understand being at war having a ton of longterm psychological effects on any normal human being. But it cannot be used as an excuse to do whatever they want like harming the innocent or having the right to be inhumane. From the video (be it real or fake), I don't see a mentally disturbed soldier but rather someone that's having fun doing shit like that to anger viewers intentionally or unintentionally. Also, I rather have a team of soldiers that act according to the code of conduct and executing missions as they were told rather than to stray off and kill a couple of cats and rabbits on the side or even worst taking advantage of the innocent non related to the war. They jeopardize the team with unnecessary actions and don't deserve to be called 'Peace Keepers'.
I'm curious, you've used that phrase more than once, and this time you capitalized it. Where are you getting it from? I may not agree with this war, but I don't believe we're there in a "peace keeper" capacity. We were there initially to destroy the existing government and we're now there to eradicate other, unrelated militant factions while a new government is being established. We're there to serve our own self-interest, not to break up fights between existing factions. Unless you've been using the term ironically and sarcastically, in which case I guess I missed that.
The war in Iraq isn't the US's interests, its in Halliburton's interests, the Chimp and Cheney benefit through their oil connections. Shiite theocracies like Iran are the major winners here. Iraq is now a friendly nation to Iran and Iran has no check on its power. Saddam kept Iran in check. Now the green zone government we fund and otherwise prop up welcomes Iran's Ahmadnejad on a red carpet paid for by the US taxpowers. Its so pathetic its almost laughable.
That's true, but it's a little bigger than that. The purpose behind the campaign is to ensure that the outcome favors American policies, its military, and its corporations, with the intent of providing a net economic benefit. We wreck the country and then get rich getting cheap oil, selling them cell phones, genetically modified seeds for crops, American movies and TV shows, etc. The idea is that the trillions that are spent on this war by our government is going to ensure that quadrillions come back in the decades that follow. Of course, it's not going to work out that way. It rarely does.
They also needed to try to polish a turd to get it elected to a second term. To do that they needed to package said turd as a "war president" sadly it worked. I'm not sure there was any real thought here but rather neo con delusions and idiocy at work. Iraq has a Muslim population, US Israel policy alone makes the concept of a welcoming population ludicrous. To expect to get quadrillions back is about as likely as the parades and roses Cheney and Scumsfeld were predicting. Its hard to rebuild when you don't protect your contractors and they get beheaded in grisly internet videos, or the Egyptian Ambassador also beheaded (or just kidnapped and disappeared). Those Sunni tribal leaders who get blown up after agreeing to support the USA in exchange for money and guns to use against us later is also a testament to our incompetence. We tried that strategy (arming and funding Sunnis) in Afghanistan with the Taliban when they were fighting Russia. The US government can't seem to remember what happened after the Taliban was done fighting Russia.
