Numbers can be cool, I was just trying to explain why I think SB don't tend to release production numbers. I personally LOVED the numbers on the RFSO shirts, the calligraphy was excellent!
Yeah the little rabbits are numbered but not really limited anymore. I guess that I am just used to collecting numbered items. Posters, cards, shirts, guitars, etc... It's kinda of like having a mustang, its cool, but the Shelby is a hell of a lot cooler. Or a Martin guitar, a regular one is cool but the limited edition reclaimed brazilian rosewood one is cooler, and sounds better too! All of this is just a personal preference. And, yes I still have a few of those little rabbits lingering about the house, most of them smoking.
Oh but it does my Mutoned Friend! Look in my "quote" from your comment. It all makes perfect sense...... Mwhahahahahahahahahah!
Yeah, the shirts rock! They did such a great job on them. The little tag on the sleeve is a cool feature! I need to wash mine and start wearing them, now that I am back from my trip.
I agree - as are blobpi, DX skeru-kuns, obaki, unchi-kin, etc. Specific colorways may actually be limited, but I don't think the toys themselves are. As Roger says, M1 may give production numbers. But every toy is fair game to be released again at any time. Who thought the Companion 5YL would be released in new a new colorway? Twice. So far... It's not like editioned art. Another edition of a print or sculpture in another color doesn't get done just because there's demand. Anyway, that's why I don't get too worried about numbers, myself.
I understand both sides of the argument. I like knowing numbers, just because I like to know what I can about toys. I am a geek that way. That said, I buy toys all the time that are never going to be rare, and I know are made by the acre. I buy toys because I like them. (as well as most of us.) In the case more directly of SB, their runs are always pretty small. The difference between one run number and another sometimes is not a big difference. What makes a figure difficult to find usually is the design and popularity. for example, there are less Devilock bees made than Skullwings, but, you can still buy a devilock bee. Lastly, the super short runs have usually been Fan Club or give-away versions, which are designed to be harder to get, so that it is something special for the die-hard supporters. The glow GF was never released for sale, it was a give away only. The only way to get one, was to get it straight from the man himself. I did not even know about them at first until one showed up in the mail! The all black madball mantis and all black GF were an extra bonus for those that supported the halloween release. The difference was, in Japan, you entered a lottery! Not everyone who collected tickets got a figure! Japanese kids could not get the GF and Americans could not get the Madball. So, find yourself a Japanese collector, and you may have an easier trade ahead of you. Suffice to say, that even a full run of SB is much lower than any line or even variant of a single figure coming out these days. I do not release edition sizes because I have been asked not to. It does in some ways perpetuate a mentality of "rarer is better" and "get it because it is limited" and SB (as well as several other Japanese companies) have asked us to not tell what the editions are. They have just as many problems in Japan with people buying toys and going straight to yahoo with them because they are "limited" and jacking the prices. When that happens, the fans get stuck out having to pay an inflated premium. By not advertising the edition size, some of that problem (but by no means all of it) is minimized. No one wants to make someone pay $300 for a figure just to complete a set, especially if it is new.
That was a very enlightening and informative treatise on this subject. It makes sense to me, and also explains why lately the edition sizes are never specified, whereas some of the previous Ghostfighters, for example, were sold with this specification made public.
Yeah I think that's really cool that the Japanese companies are taking a completely different stance on the advertising of low run numbers from the Western companies that celebrate a super limited edition of 900!!! just to generate more hype. I'm somewhat curious of run numbers but it definitely doesn't determine whether I'll buy a toy or not.
I know it's warm under those blanket statements, folks, but... Brian, after years and years in this hobby, I'm surprised that you would say something like that. There are a few dealers who, given the chance, would charge their own mother through the nose for that last figure to complete their collection. You and I have seen it happen time and time again. However, if this was meant in a more specific context, if you're saying that a dealer with scruples such as the Super7 store wouldn't do it, then that's a different story. I have no doubts about that. In the specific case of Secret Base and Super7, I understand that you have a business relationship with them, and therefore are obligated to comply with their wishes. That's fine. Sooner or later, though, I think that may have to change. (see below) Count, check my post earlier in the thread. I posted two Japanese companies that do post production numbers. As I said before, I think the primary value of releasing production run numbers is to help collectors protect themselves against predatory pricing practices. Let's say I see two similarly-sized M-1 Go figures I don't have in a shop. One was produced in a quantity of 100 and is priced at $100, and another was produced in a quantity of 1000 and priced at $100. If I'm armed with the information from their web site, I'll probably buy the first one because I know that I may not come across it again easily. I'll probably pass on the second one because I know that I'll see it sold in other places, possibly for less. If the information about production runs is not being released, then I have no leg to stand on. The same goes for the store, too, who might be paying jacked up prices from his supplier. When companies like M-1 Go, Marmit, etc. started making vintage-styled kaiju figures for the collector market, all sorts of shenanigans were being pulled on new collectors here and in Japan. I believe releasing the production numbers was one of the things they did to counteract this. I think eventually Secret Base and their kin may be faced with the same decisions as their segment of the hobby grows.
Oh and we all know a ton of Dealers out there that have Scruples........ I do and I know for a fact Mr. Flynn does. But your theory total backfires on you when said dealers gets in the Lmt. Ed. AND knows said piece is RARE & charges customers up the ass for it. Having been on the dealer side of it for over 10 years now I have seen it happen again and again. A recent Western Vinyl comes to mind JLed's Fire Cat. I got in a half a case, Knew they were Limited to 400 Pieces and put them out at Retail!!! I was inundated by people trying to buy them at retail and I am sure a few of them were going to flip them for a Ton more cause they could. I can see both arguments here - one it facilitates the Customer in makng a more economic choice and then on the other hand it helps the "dealers" out there to figure out how much money they can make on their customers. I have seen WAY to much bad shit go down to know you can't change Human nature. Lets all put this to bed and all try to get along okay! We will never agree on this point.
That's great, because you were able to sell many, if not all of them. Were there other dealers that put them out for above retail? If so, did they sell them out? Were they forced to lower their prices due to your influence on the market or are they still stuck with them? I realize there are many dimensions to this. Based on my experience, I believe the net effect when more information is circulated about production runs is positive. I don't think all of us are ever going to see the situation exactly the same way, either, but I don't see any problems in this thread. We're discussing things calmly and disagreeing, not fighting. Ramos, you're the one who asked the original question, have we illuminated anything for you?
I see what you're saying Roger, it just seems that at least with this current wave of toy collecting namely the Kid Robot type, they don't release run numbers as much to be informative as they do to use it as a marketing tool to whip the masses into a frenzy. That could be totally different from the Kaiju toy collecting scene though I really have no idea.
I don't care about the run numbers if I have a shot to buy it at retail price. When shopping in the aftermarket I do. I think what SB is doing is great, but I hope they do release the nubers at some point becasue we are colelctors and we want to know. Maybe these companies should release the numbers once a year after the figures have sold. That way they take care of both the retail and aftermarket. It would also be a event, we would all be on the site waiting for the numbers to be released. It could be fun.
there are some interesting points here. I guess I am just worried that marketing tactics has messed up peoples minds. If KR is saying limited to 1000, and you were excited by that, and now you have discovered that there is a giant world of toys outside of KR but still want the same information KR would give you to influence your purchasing. I think KR sucks because they act like they invented this toy thing. That image works for them to make sales, but it is really weird to me.
After re-reading the thread, and seeing Count and Ramos' last post, I guess there's a side of this I haven't been exposed to much, the aspect of companies using the limited aspect as a marketing tool. I'm sure that's a frustrating thing to deal with sometimes. Economies of scale come into play, too, I guess. It's one thing when M-1 Go tells Japan (about 127 million people) about a limited edition of 1000, it's another thing when Kid Robot tells America (about 295 million people) the same thing. (edit: where it says [expletive deleted], I mean the hasn't-reached-adulthood-yet-robot company, you know the one...)
One thing I will say is that sometimes the published edition sizes don't seem entirely plausible for various reasons. For example, I noticed those transparent Invader figures on the Charactics website at least a couple months before there was much hype on this board about them---the company claimed that I could order directly from them if using an international money order, but I never got around to it. Months later I wound up obtaining a set from S7 (as did a number of other people). I had also seen at least a couple of sets appear on YJA over time as well. If I recall, the company webpage indicated that the edition size was 30 sets for these figures. Somehow it seems unimaginable to consider that there aren't thirty people in the entire world who would buy these up in fairly short order. Afterall, I didn't really pay more than retail, (excluding a little customary import/markup) and I have probably witnessed a good 25% of the total alleged production run in pictures of US collections or offered on YJA. Something just doesn't seem to add up. The same holds true for the new clear pink Charactics Hedora which I got in the aftermarket for retail price, which the company website definitely claims was an edition of 30. I don't really understand how these toys could remain this accessible if the editions are really this small. It would seem that in Japan alone, it would be easy to unload 30 of these, yet they don't seem to become scarce very quickly. I don't know what the explanation is, but it seems like there is something mysterious going on with these production numbers...
In the specific case of Charactics' production numbers, it's possible that: 1) The numbers on the site refer to specific releases of the toys (i.e. they sell 30 at Wonderfest, 30 at World Character Con, etc.) 2) The numbers on the site don't take into account anything they sell via mail order (like your Invaders). Incidentally, I find it surprising that they sold those vinyls to you. I wonder if they'd do the same with the Toho stuff.
I don't care about production runs. I just buy the figures I like. When there are variants of a figure, I purchase the one I find most aesthetically pleasing, not the one that's most rare. I'm actually glad when the variant I want isn't the most limited one. I do see a benefit to knowing the production runs, however. I like to prioritize the figures I plan on buying. If a figure is more limited, I might buy it first...simply because I don't want to miss out on the opportunity to purchase it at or near retail.
