Discussion in 'Other Asian Toys' started by topher, Sep 17, 2016.
Ahahahaha....!!!! I know right.....!!!! Quack Quack
Ditto. What's the story there, @sumatra71 ?
Just a random find while cruising the web. He does some really great art work... http://jonathanstroh.com
scroll down on his website to see more...
HAH'....!!!! @Purple Bat @boon velvet
Cool, and that's why the arguing and ripping on people who are saying what they think about it is pointless. Some care about the toys influencing toys, and some don't. You both have your reasons and I personally like hearing everyone's opinions.
I don't think anyone's knocking PlanetxAsia for their sculpting abilities, are they? Isn't the general consensus that they're pretty flawless? They look super well done from here, but I haven't seen any in hand so my opinion has no weight. But the final results are what I think matters. How it got there not so much; every sculpting avenue is no more or no less difficult than the other, just different. I say if you shoot with a digital camera, you've got no right to mock digital sculpting anyhow.
See this, this is what confuses me. You're using "rip off artists" as a cut even tho that's essentially the negative argument about PxA. And earlier you said that "picking and choosing who did it for the love of it and who did it for simple profit is a matter of opinion." There's truth to that, but why is Target Earth considered an "ultimate opportunist" to You? Then you say that PxA "are 10 fold better", so did you say all that then because you just don't like Target Earth's toys? Cause that's 1 hell of a sharp tongued opinion just because you don't like someone's toys. That's The same type of stuff you were getting so defensive over ( this statement may even be worse) . I think you got too caught up in defending something that you like that you started criticizing the people who had opinions and then saying whatever you could in hopes that it would stop. This forum is for talking about toys and there doesn't need to be a defender of the PxA thread. I don't think they need defending anyhow... Egggh, there's something to this, but I have officially annoyed myself. Thought I owed a response, but maybe not. Pretty sure I accidentally deleted a big section of this by accident anyway... Reluctantly posting. If it's annoying anyone else, I'll take it down. My judgement may already be asleep.
Edit: For the record, @topher, although I do get a kick out of firsts when it comes to toy design, I am not anti PlanetxAsia. Oh, I did want to tell you tho, since you liked the elbow spikes so much, that you should check out Hirota's because you might like his elbow spikes better.
for me, buying neo-kaiju that can be displayed well with vintage pieces is very important.
i know the fancy computer sculpting is not easy but it really does give it a whole new look that takes away the charm of something like a brown/tan king gorillaju. these new planetxasia sculpts look like they belong with mcfarlane toys.
that being said i keep an eye on this thread in case they come up with an original character that catches my eye, because why not
To be fair that's quite a nice compliment considering some of the McFarlane toys still hold up extremely well to today's standards after long term ageing unlike some other toys do from long ago.
But I would say that toys like the ones TAN or James Groman make are more in line with that while Planetxasia does not overdo it as much. You could still put these toys with most vintage pieces and it wouldn't hurt a thing.
..but not at all similar to the classic sofubi aesthetic.
a good amount of new makers seem to be disregarding that altogether and just using the medium.
@evom nailed it.
These planetxasia sculpts don't look bad, but aside from being made of soft vinyl, they have no place in this hobby. They have no soul. Latch on to whatever is popular, have some guy whip up a digital sculpt, and get that fucker into production! I agree with the McFarlane comparison, and like McFarlane toys, they would be much more at home on a shelf at Toys R Us.
A) Nu-sofubi (PlanetxAsia, PLT, "Vintage Vinyl Club") = Rob Liefeld, McFarlane (both artwork and toys)
B) Classic Sofubi (BullMark, Marusan, M1Go) = Bernie Wrightson, Jack Kirby, Richard Corben
Group A has no sense of style, substance.. no personality or charm in their pieces. They are just tough guy toys or imitations of characters that have had success in previous years
Aww, I kind of like PLT's Miajuana or however the hell you spell it... probably because it kind of looks like if could be some kind of yokai/demon (the big-tongued lantern yokai comes to mind) and I'm all for that kind of stuff. Like I can totally imagine that fucker lying under your bed, waiting for your foot to hang off the side, and then licking it before chomping it off. The rest of his stuff, ehhhhh, I'll pass. Not for me at all.
...Okay, maybe I'd grab one of those omakes that come with Coolie High because it's a doggo, but Coolie High itself can go back to whatever dumpster it crawled from.
sure they do. That's a completely silly statement to make. If that's the case let's pretty much get rid of all the American sofubi made stuff on the forums as well and only talk about pure blood Japanese toy makers. But I guarantee you that would be fucking stupid.
Weren't you trying to sell some of PLT's stuff from one of your shows? Why are you trash talking it now? Did the maker piss you off or something as to the reason your throwing them under the bus as well?
And to the comparison statement you could apply the opposite and say that B lacks depth, detail, looks childish, etc. But truth be told for me I enjoy both A and B. Different strokes for different folks.
people are actually saying that for the most part, but you always seem to treat everyones opinions as facts and then try to give all these reasons why theyre wrong. most of the negativity is that some of these sculpts do not fit the aesthetic and sculptural styling of traditional sofubi. I dunno if it's right or wrong or even matters really, but its like, theyre opinion maannn. I love Japanese vinyl but I don't collect a material, I collect a style of toy. For me personally, I don't like these toys.. but I don't think they should stop doing theyre thing and making what they wanna make. but you cannot honestly tell me that there is no difference in sculpting style between toy types.
Im ok with ppl stating how they feel about a toy but its an issue when for the next few pages its nothing but negativity. I guess the same can be said with some of the other threads to. And your opinion i have no issue with as you still show a small lvl of respect still for the creator.
There is a difference but thats what makes them interesting. But they also are not super over the top detailed like some ppl are saying. They still stand in line with a rather simplistic stylization of what that artist wants. But when given to specific artist to paint they can definitely feel more detailed and spawn like in looks.
hmm, how do i put this to not be offensive.
i dont dislike this brand for doing their thing. like i said, i keep checking to see if they make something that makes me want to buy.
that thing would have to fit a certain aesthetic that fits along the lines of classic kaiju toys. but i was also drawn to this hobby because of classic kaiju and yeah they look childish, but they were toys meant to be played with by children.
i collect funko pop disney characters, i am on no high horse here. but i like those charmless lifeless characters because theyre $10 and slightly resemble a movie character i like.
I annoy myself with my own responses here as well.
I certainly am not asking anyone to stop bashing whatever toy company they feel compelled to bash.
I definitely did not say anything bad about digital sculpting... not sure how you got that??
Yes i can get too caught up in defending something i like, but the opposite is certainly true for others.
the comparison of these high quality rotocasted soft vinyl, kaiju inspired figures to mass produced horror/comic plastic mold injected action figures is ridiculous, obviously just a slight but as I've learned many times on SB a "slick tongue" is no problem as long as you're on the bandwagon.
The fact remains, many here are picking and choosing which artists should be allowed to borrow ideas and who should not, new bad, old good, bla bla,
We all know what they say about opinions... funny how some always feel theirs are "correct"
My opinion is that ^ this opinion is WAY off base and idiotic but whatever, carry on w the bashing.
This whole conversation is what happens when different generations of collectors mix. You can still yell at kids to metaphorically get off your lawn, but they are still going to do it.
Me? I meant the opposite. In response to you thinking other people were coming down on PxA because of going the digital route. I was saying that I don't think that's exactly it.
It is, but in this case, you were the only one getting personal repeatedly, still it doesn't matter what toy thread we're in, it was the attempt to spread misinformation that really bothered me...
I know I'm repeating myself and I don't want to load this thread up with more word pollution. Time to duck out from beating this dead horse.
@topher, I was fading towards the end of my last post, but I meant to post this image of the King Gorilla Ju's elbow spikes. You may still like PxA's better, but since it sounded like you thought the addition of elbow spikes was their idea, I thought you should know that it wasn't. For correct information's sake and all:
[not my image]
These are a lot more subtle, but they fit the overall design better that way. Same goes for PlanetxAsia's, with their ape being a more exaggerated version, the spikes needed to become more dramatic.
Yes they both have spikes dude I get it.
I like the way PlanetX has reimagined these characters. I like the size, quality, vinyl feel, articulation and header art.
That is all.
Nope they didn't piss me off at all. We did invite them to the show and that was the first time any of us held their vinyl in hand (they also included that two-headed thing from Vintage Vinyl Club without us inviting that artist) - the vinyl felt like a Toys'R'Us plaster mold. Hard, brittle with what seemed to be the equivalent of 10 layers of Monster Kolor clear coat on top of it. I'm sure it was some industrial clear coat that wasn't designed for this particular use. So after experiencing the toys in hand we knew that these were not resembling the magic that lured us into sofubi in the first place.
All of my comments are not simply to trash-talk/bully - it's to preserve what Skullbrain started out as. It's the same reason why the resin forum is fucking dead. We all came here because we discovered these cool little plastic toys that are being made in Japan, full of life, colour, and personality. We came to Skullbrain because we were sick of the bland shit over at the other toy forums. To put it bluntly and honestly speaking for myself and a few others here, sofubi collecting is a elitist hobby.. it's the High Fidelity of toy collecting. I have every faith that if I order a toy from someone like Gargamel or Yamomark the quality with be top notch. That's what got me into these toys - I appreciate the care that goes into the production as much as the creativity and originality that comes with Japanese sofubi.
Maybe I'm more personally invested with chinese production than most because I have to waste my own time weeding out a huge percentage of defective toys when I get shipments of Cheestroyers which costs me time, money and is something I shouldn't have to do in the first place. Quality control seems to be non-existent over there.. I guess that's one of the costs that have been cut to make chinese vinyl cheaper huh?
My dad told me once how he played with grape seeds for Armymen and peach seeds were used as Tanks.
He grew up in the 1940's.
Always felt sorry for him because of that and other things. Then one day after he passed, I finally got it.
Imagination and introspection were used as resources to allow him to be able to play and be a kid.
Today we are fortunate to not have to rely on playing with seeds instead of having plastic companions.
Try to enjoy what makes you happy and not let mutual joy be eclipsed by chewing on our differences.
"We must end the fighting, or we will lose the War."
I disagree with sofubi being an elitist hobby considering how much is available for the public to choose from especially now. Maybe a few years ago it was harder to get certain items but that is not the case now. I mean sure it can be expensive but there are many pieces that are quite within budget and affordable as well.
i think what he means is that we still pay top dollar for quality work. im sure at least someone in your life has questioned why you spend what you do on "just toys" haha.
my comparison to mcfarlane toys was simply that it is very well calculated detail as opposed to the asymmetry and obvious hand sculpting i prefer. not calling them toys r us toys myself hahah
That makes more sense and yes i have but i quickly put there mind at ease by telling them the cost of action figures is not getting any cheaper lately ether with the regular price of toys jumping to the normal of over 20 and 30 dollars a pop. I than tell them that the sofubi pieces are crafted by hand and painted by hand unlike what a factory does and than they pretty much just nod and say no more.
Just going to saunter in here with my non-aggressive, personal opinion...
The Gorilla-Ju is an iconic sofubi toy that has been elevated to absolutely crazy hype status. It's impossible not to recognize it, and it has arm spikes. Do gorillas have arm spikes? No, they do not.
So when another company decides to not only make a gorilla with arm spikes, but also decides to make a two-headed version, it's bound to raise some eyebrows and ruffle some feathers.
Maybe my opinion is just coming from the perspective of someone who was super-involved in world-building/role-playing/story-writing on the Internet in my teenage years, but from my years in that little slice of the Interwebs, taking an established character and copying it was sacrilege. You would have people organize raids on other people's deviantART pages for that. (This was from a time long, long ago, before the whole website became fanart fetish cancer.) Your reputation would be absolutely ruined. All fanart of other people's original characters HAD to be credited or you would face terrible consequences, and you'd get kicked from groups if you designed a character that resembled another person's.
It was some brutal stuff, but it's part of what shaped me into who I am today in terms of world-building and character design. I might not be a professional, or a "real artist," or I might not share a lot of my stuff, but I put a lot of thought and work into specifically making sure anything I create DOESN'T look or resemble anything else that exists prior, even if that means removing key elements I actually really liked. (Maybe in the future all of this will change and I can actually figure out a way to let loose this entire universe into toy and accompanying story form.)
The main issue at hand with PlanetXAsia is that their designs are all based off of other already established toys, and that's a bit worrying. It's fine if you like their reimagining, but the problem is the fact that these are being reimagined in the first place. They never needed to be. There was no contact between the parties. They just up and decided to take a pre-existing toy, change up the design a little, sculpt it themselves, and release it with a rather hefty pricetag.
It just seems like a dishonest business practice. And yes, Target Earth has done this too, but they also do have original sculpts and usually do it with a blatant sense of humor. They also became the "token ripoff artist." They sort of filled that role of being the copycat, and likewise are loathed by some, loved by others. I'm sure they get their fair share of criticism too, which makes PlanetXAsia just as susceptible to such criticism.
Lastly, sofubi was a Japanese thing. There have been a lot of artists who aren't Japanese who decided they wanted to respect the craft and aesthetic, and have run with that. Some people have that kind of purist mindset. Honestly, can you blame them? They probably grew up with classic sofubi, they probably got into the hobby on a certain style of toy, and this is what they know and love.
A lot of makers now decide to produce any toy in soft vinyl, without taking the "history and roots" into consideration. I think the primary question is why couldn't they have just cast their toys in any other number of vinyl types, like the same kind that's used for KR's stuff, rather than encroaching on a medium that was by nature, traditionally Japanese. I'm sure that irks a lot of people.
Me? I'm just not interested in these toys. I like originality. I'm not seeing it here. I'm not shitting my brains out at the thought of these toys being produced, but I am a little saddened that someone who would have the money and means to make something would waste those resources on something that already exists in some shape or form. Either way, I just won't be buying. These are too expensive, they don't fit with my collection's aesthetic, and they don't really interest me much.
Like Glenn mentioned, if I want a quality toy, I'll order Yamomark. I actually just did ten minutes ago. I can get an awesome, GID standard-sized toy for about $75 that is completely original in design... or I could spend ~$300 on a toy that seems oddly similar to another one on the market. The choice is pretty clear to me.
Separate names with a comma.