I just Dune'd.

Discussion in 'Whatever' started by toothaction, Oct 26, 2021.

  1. Anti Social Andy

    Anti Social Andy Die-Cast

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    I just Dune'd.
    Like the bagpipes . . . I totally missed that too!

    Maybe I need to rewatch it again with the crib sheet. :shock: :lol:
     
  2. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    I just Dune'd.
    I was finally able to rewatch the movie a second time. It's okay. I don't think I'll ever love it the way I love the novel, and I feel like I'm probably only going to watch it one more time right before the second movie comes out. This time around I noticed a hole in the script big enough to ride a sandworm through, though.

    The opening filmstrip explains that spice is used by the Fremen to preserve life and bring health benefits, and that the navigators of the Spacing Guild use it to find paths between the stars. "Without spice, interstellar travel is impossible." That's all you get.

    I understand that WB is trying to sell this movie to the mainstream audiences who watch Marvel and Star Wars movies, so the writers and editors need to pare down elements to their bare essentials. I get that the script doesn't bother with words like like "melange" and "mentat."

    But all they had to do was write just one sentence elaborating on the setting. Otherwise, you're left with questions like: How did anyone make their way to Arrakis in the first place if people couldn't travel through space? Why is space travel so hard? Can't they just do it with computers, like Star Trek and Star Wars?

    I don't feel like these are "where does the lightsaber beam know where to stop" questions. This isn't fantasy, this is real science fiction. It doesn't break the film for me, my knowledge of the novels is filling in gaps the writers left, but I think a moviegover totally unfamiliar with Dune is going to ask this question.

    Anyway, we'll see how this wraps up in 2023.
     
  3. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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  4. ultrakaiju

    ultrakaiju Die-Cast Staff Member

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    I just Dune'd.
    Late to the thread but I also just Dune'd. I have to echo a lot of @Roger's and @deafmetal's thoughts. This is one of those things where, going into it, I already know I am 'too close' to the subject matter to really be able to be have expectations met by any filmed attempt at Herbert's universe. Read (and re-read) the novels over the past decades, and have never strayed far from it. But, and this is probably sacrilege for a lot of die hard fans/snobs, I also have a very good appreciation (and even love) for the Lynch movie. Sure, it might not be Dune in the way the novel is, but how could it ever be. Instead it gives us something completely interesting and for what it drops it adds a ton of enjoyable things too. But anyways, the '84 movie is a lengthy discussion probably best left to another time.

    So the 2021 version was... okay. I am like Mark in that, when there is a movie I want to see/am potentially excited about, I will try and avoid any spoilers, trailers, discussions, press junkets, etc. So this was no different. Though I was really angered when I read in a headline of an article about it ending being a split [into two part] movie. Which of course makes sense, given the subject matter, but is sooooo frustrating at the outset, especially since Part II was not even greenlit. That sort of thing is nothing but annoyance. I digress though. I feel like I must be in the minority, but right away when production of this movie was started, and all of the leaked material and shots I did see, the thing that immediately struck me was the casting. So many of the characters, as good a job as the actors did, just seemed miscast to me, and the performances were not what I was hoping for. Villeneuve is certainly a very visual filmmaker, and Dune 2021 was certainly beautiful and epic, but it also felt a lot emptier than I think it should have. All those long shots of horizons, panning scenery... and especially the Chani dream sequences (come on, how many lines did Zendaya even have?), just seemed like they could have been used for a bit more exposition on the depth and complexity that makes Dune such an amazing and immersion story. While of course they can't include everything, and they need to dumb it down for mass consumption, I think it is to the subject's detriment to not suggest some of that aspect which is what has earned the novels the fans for as long as they have been around. So not going to nitpick this little thing, or that, or the bagpipes!, but really just a bit sad I guess for what might have been.

    The positive aspect of the extended production break, if I have to find one, is that it should give them enough time to do a proper break in the story. It is right there in the source material, and was an immediate logical choice when I heard they were breaking this into two parts. The thing is, they seem to have done it at entirely the wrong moment. It would make a ton more sense to come back in a couple years when Paul/Chalamet has grown (physically and mentally) and entered Fremen life. I think this is one aspect deftly handled actually by MacLachlan and Lynch in the '84 film. He manages to be at just the right age where he can start off with the young, naive boy, but bring his performance to the more serious, mature man and build up to that leadership position. By erring quite young with Chalamet, they have the opportunity to also do this physically over the course of part II, but I think really missed a beat by not stopping later on in the story. They'll have to come back, finish the 'intro' so to speak, and then get on with the rest.

    Anyways, lots of thoughts on the film. And they are probably best shared in a personal discussion, perhaps accompanied by some beverages; who knows when that might be again. It is definitely something that should be (and deserves to be) enjoyed in a cinema experience [alas, we are where we are though]. That was actually my main drawback of the entire film, the viewing experience I had. Terrible, terrible lighting, completely inconsistent throughout, lines across the image, and awful sound. Two giant thumbs down to that movie cinema.

    P.S. - I'll let the bagpipes go, just because it is St. Andrew's Day :razz:
     
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  5. toothaction

    toothaction Team Tsubu Staff Member

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    I just Dune'd.
    It's good to hear about some of your reactions, pH, even if the experience of the film doesn't sound like it was much of a positive one. Agreed that it would be excellent to have the opportunity to dish over the epic (in it's many forms) over a beverage or six, but for now I suppose the best I can do is share an interpretation that feels in line with your sentiments.
     
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  6. boon velvet

    boon velvet Post Pimp

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    I just Dune'd.
    That was great. “This is one of my lines” :lol: :thumbsup:
     
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  7. ultrakaiju

    ultrakaiju Die-Cast Staff Member

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    I just Dune'd.
    Too good, I needed that D, thanks!

     
  8. Anti Social Andy

    Anti Social Andy Die-Cast

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    I just Dune'd.
    I was one of those neanderthals that they dumbed it down for . . . and appreciated it!

    IMO a lot of films these days feel like they are desperately trying to get everyone up to speed set the scene, pad-out-the backstory, and in the 1.5-3hr time-slot of most movies that often breaks the flow, or is just a sensory overload. I kinda enjoyed the slow burn plot development and immersive visuals . . . but then again, I'm the neanderthal that's never read the book and long since forgotten the original movie. :D
     
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  9. The Moog

    The Moog Die-Cast

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    I just Dune'd.
    I've read the books and seen the Lynch flick many times, and i still enjoyed the new version a lot. I think people often expect way too much when it comes to adaptations of beloved stuff, which is to be expected i suppose. There is no way anyone can match whats in your head, especially if its been in your head for a long time.
     
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  10. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    I just Dune'd.
    When I discovered that book as a teenager, the complexity of the setting was one of the main reasons I enjoyed it. I liked reading about the history of this empire, and why people were being trained as human calculators and lie detectors, and the reasons why this culture has lasers but soldiers use knives instead.

    No one is wrong for liking this movie instead of feeling just meh like I do, but this is the experience for me: I got a table at this famous Italian restaurant, and none of the dishes had any garlic in them. The original Dune novel had a lot of garlic. Lynch used a lot of garlic, too, but it was that minced pickled garlic from the jar. No good, tastes weird, you need to grate the fresh stuff yourself. Where was my garlic, Villeneuve?
     
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  11. The Moog

    The Moog Die-Cast

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    I just Dune'd.
    :)

    Artist: Iron Maiden
    Song: 'To Tame A Land.'
    Album: Piece Of Mind
    Lyrics: (Harris)
    1983

    He is the king of all the land
    In the kingdom of the sands
    Of a time tomorrow

    He rules the sandworms and the fremen
    In a land amongst the stars
    Of an age tomorrow

    He is destined to be a king
    He rules over everything
    On the land called planet dune

    Bodywater is your life
    And without it you would die
    On the desert the planet dune

    Without a stillsuit you would fry
    On the sands so hot and dry
    In a world called arrakis

    It is a land that's rich in spice
    The sandriders and the 'mice'
    That they call the 'muad'dib'

    He is the kwizatz haderach
    He is born of caladan
    And will take the gom jabbar

    He has the power to foresee
    Or to look into the past
    He is the ruler of the stars

    The time will come for him
    To lay claim his crown
    And then the foe yes
    They'll be cut down
    You'll see he'll be the
    Best that there's been
    Messiah supreme
    True leader of men
    And when the time
    For judgement's at hand
    Don't fret he's strong
    And he'll make a stand
    Against evil and fire
    That spreads through the land
    He has the power
    To make it all end
     
  12. toothaction

    toothaction Team Tsubu Staff Member

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    I just Dune'd.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  13. liquidsky

    liquidsky Vintage

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    I just Dune'd.
    I still want to own a copy of Jodorowsky / Moebius's book of storyboards and art
     
  14. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    I just Dune'd.
  15. liquidsky

    liquidsky Vintage

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    I just Dune'd.
    Yeah yeah, I know.
    On a more realistic level, I've been trying to convince Taschen to get rights to it and reprint it.
     
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  16. ---NT---

    ---NT--- Prototype

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    I just Dune'd.
    For real! The Jodorowski bible would be the best work based on the book ever. Just seeing it in the documentary made my jaw drop.
     
  17. ---NT---

    ---NT--- Prototype

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    I just Dune'd.
    Bah! I can certainly be a snob about many things, but the Lynch Dune is not one of them - I too enjoy it quite a lot.

    I do agree wtih some of the criticism that people have written. The dream sequences were either too numerous, or not used effectively...or both. A bit more explanation would probably make it a better movie, but since I'm familiar with the story I was able to fill in the gaps. While watching, before reading other opinions, my biggest takeaway was that the contemplative or introspective feeling of the Lynch movie (and book) just wasn't quite there. But also, it didn't feel too different from the Lynch movie...but maybe it's just been too long since I've watched it. For being so similar to Lynch's movie, while being significantly longer (slower) while giving the viewer less info, it's odd to me that this new one is so well received, while Lynch's is "long, slow, and boring".

    All that said, I loved the hell out of it! I forgot that it was leaving HBO otherwise I would have watched it again.
     
  18. doomboy

    doomboy Toy Prince

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    I just Dune'd.
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  19. ultrakaiju

    ultrakaiju Die-Cast Staff Member

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    I just Dune'd.
    This was something I really wanted to speak about as well, for all the fans who disparage the Lynch version, I can't see how they can then hold up this one as shining example; it was very clear that Villeneuve drew a ton of inspiration [intentional or otherwise] from the earlier film. And why wouldn't he, it is there, and part of the collective conscious, and an example of one way Dune had already been put to screen. But to note several nods in 2021 to 1984, which were completely separate and distinct from the source material, that was a bit of a surprise (to me). Rather than what I had expected, which was for this version to be its own thing and distance itself as much as possible from other interpretations (including the mini-series), it felt more akin to a remake than an entirely new 'vision.' Which is also fine. But let's acknowledge that, too.
     
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  20. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    I just Dune'd.
    That's interesting, again, watching this movie I felt like it was bending over backwards to make sure it didn't look or sound like the Lynch version.

    If you like the Lynch movie, track down the Spicediver Edit. The editor incorporated all extra footage they could find from the TV broadcast and other sources and came up with a three hour cut. It's the best effort at making a silk purse out of a sow's ear but it feels much closer to the original novel, particularly the ending.
     
  21. ---NT---

    ---NT--- Prototype

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    I just Dune'd.
    Definitely! This was certainly more in line with a remake than a reimagining. The differences were far fewer than the similarities.
     
  22. doomboy

    doomboy Toy Prince

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    I just Dune'd.
  23. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    I just Dune'd.
    I'm 20 minutes into this and this dude is nuttier than a fruitcake. Buzzfeed posted this about their "collective" today: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amansethi/spicedao-dunedao-soby
     
  24. blakewest

    blakewest Side Dealer

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    I just Dune'd.
     
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  25. Philpenn

    Philpenn Toy Prince

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    I just Dune'd.
    Dune is my new favorite movie to fall asleep to. Previous favorite was Blade Runner 2049. Hmm.
     
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