Many companies like Gargamel and Secret Base are doing just that. They are creating collaborative relatationships with US retailers like S7 and artist such as Bwana and Martin. More power to them and its better for us. The problems arise when you collect certain items that are promotional in nature, like my before-mentioned cronic show exclusive handpaints, and releases by the Bemon guy, who tend to sell in batches of 2-3 pieces whenever he feels like it. I know for a fact that way less than half of the 60 or so 2-headed Bemons produced have been sold to the public yet. He is creating artificial hype and doing a damn good job of it I might add. And I know that those that have been sold were sold in a way to thank the local customers who regularly frequent Bounty Hunter. I missed one of the releases of the Red one at BxH by less than an hour. Bemons are sold there and at the Cosmo Knight Liquid store in similar fashion. If you do not go to Bounty Hunter twice a week, and the Bounty Hunter guys are happy selling to Japanese locals, then you have no other recourse than to buy the toys on the secondary market. It just depends on whether or not the resale price is an amount you are willing to spend on it. You can always contact the artist directly or go to Japan and meet them yourself. I say this is an non-sarcastic manner. Many of my best toy-scores have been from Naoki of Cronic directly. And, I know CKA has been known to hookup collectors with Bemons if they are civil upon first visiting his store. Listen, all I am saying is the flippers are an option. A very small option, but an option nonetheless. Once you spend some time in Japan and see how fucking difficult it is to buy any of these toys. In fact, I'd be willing to bet there isn't a store in Tokyo right now that has a Cronic piece for sale. It is THAT maddeningly difficult to buy the new Neo Kaiju toys in Japan. These type of toys are made in runs exponentially lower that any other toys ever sold in Japan, even the IKB Bootlegs. And so after spending time there trying to land toys, I really started to appreciate those flippers who could provide the impossible. But again, that's not to say I don't prefer to buy from S7 or Japanese companies who choose to sell direct to the US, only that I'm happy to have the option during my "rare" moments of weakness.
In some ways, there are two different spectrums of collecting involved. Yes, for the regular releases of Bemons, Troopers or what have you, flipping sucks. Frankly, although the flippers are making an additional profit, I don't really see this as screwing the artist. The artist still moves the same amount of product either way. We, as the collector, just end up paying more. On this end, I think the artists are aware of the problem and changes are being made for the better. Take for example, the numerous artists' webstores and the increasing availability of items through S7 distro. Then you have the store-only releases, the super-limited festival releases and lottery prizes. In this environment, I agree with stealthtank. Unless you have a direct line to the artist (and even then, not always), the only way that you will score these is via a person who buys with the intent to resell. To me it seems that the only way to get around this is to change the nature of the sales system itself, i.e., eliminate event exclusives, police the store exclusives. Not to be apathetic, but the system is what it is for these latter items. The important thing is to be aware of how the items are circulated so that you can make intelligent choices when you go after the super-rares. And for that, I really appreciate the insight of stealth's discussion above.
your thoughts on this are really good scott. this is how it is for those of us who are serious about a few certain things in their collections. i have talked at length with people in Japan about bemon and other types of releases that are as limited in nature. short of sleeping outside of CKA every day, it's doubtful you're going to find any bemon for retail. this is just how it's done. for me, most of my purchases come from super 7. recently, with my trip to Japan coming up, I've scaled way back on buying so this has been a lot less but nonetheless, it's awesome to be able to send an email and be told whether or not you can get something. I also utilize a few other outlets, as well as friends in Japan, who can help me get the releases that I'm interested in. In addition, i have recently become so smitten with a bemon release that it haunts my dreams. literally i have dreams that i go to CKA, have the bemon in my hand, i'm handing the money over and i wake up. What do you do in this instance of seeing only one on the secondary market? I emailed all of the folks I know who might be able to help me out. Yes, "flippers" included. You might not agree with it, but having the flippers there does make it a bit "Easier" at times. I'm not saying it's always right, or that people don't deserve the money going directly to them, but it is an option. And I've said it time and again, forge relationships in this hobby. Make friends, help each other out, and you will be so happy with the rewards, not only of being able to land stuff you never dreamed possible, but also hooking up folks who might not have access to things you can get as well. Again scott, great insights. This is a great discussion.
why doesn't killerj or chaos come and reply to the discussion? i know someone who can translate for them. I'll even paypal them both $20 for their time.
I think Stealth pretty much summed it up. It's a business for them. They buy these toys and resell them as a means to make money. In exchange for a service and product they make available to the buyer. The prices are high due to the # of people involved and the scarcity of the pieces, and because they want/need to make some money too. True it sucks from a collectors standpoint but it seems to be the nature of the game at this point.
CHAOS sorry to poop on your sale. your price isn't that crazy & i hope you sell it to someone who actually wants to own it.. Stealth.. could it be reservation by CKA instead of hype? I mean Bemon sell regardless so just seems like hes picky about who he sells them to. i mean you say artificial hype is being created but each release sells out same day its offered so why would he need to hype anything? related to this discussion: while at SDCC this past summer i ran into another skullbrain member who while we were talking about how cool the event was told me how he was able to score several Ojos from Gargamel with intent to resell. you know who you are but don't worry i won't call you out on here.. but did he provide a service as well? MODs, can this be moved to "whatever" under the title.. "to flip or not to flip" good points are being made and insite is a good thing, just think it belongs there at this point.
I wasn't aware that Knunt buys his stock from Mandarake. That's BS. What sort of service is he providing? None. Everyone can buy from Mandarake just as easily as they could from Knunt. The only reason it's easier to buy from Knunt is that it's more expensive so most people don't buy the stuff and it sits around a lot long than it does at Mandarake. Eff that.
do we have access to all of the stuff at mandarake? the online shop only sells a small fraction of what is available.
If these flipper-types "need" to exist as a bi-product of the modern kaiju scene, thats fine. Its beyond me to change that. However, it certainly seems to me that skullbrain.org is not a place where they should be welcomed. If they are to be allowed here, there needs to be more transparency about who is who. Deliberately obscuring who you are in order to make money off of collectors here is Wrong.
Depends on what they were sold for and to whom. RFSO price to SBers who couldn't get to SDCC would be cool I guess. Discussing the morality of flipping JP vinyl is like discussing religion or politics with friends...
Yes, because "my" way is always the right one... This is a good discussion, although it has killed the sales thread that started it! I would love to have a Bemon in the collection, but have never seen one quite in the price range that is justifiable---guess that I just don't want one bad enough yet! This is what it all boils down to---"Do I want this (insert desired toy here) enough to pay (insert amount of money) for it?" Everyone has to answer it for themselves...
its true that everyone should decide for themselves on whether to pay flipper prices. however, as customers we should have the right to know if the person we're giving our hard-earned cash to happens to be a dirtbag price-fixer.
Wow this is for sure one of the best threads of the year !! Scott has summed things up very well. If you have been collecting for a while you will eventually come to this conclusion. At least for the figures he is talking about. I mean I get angry when I see a release that was sold out at Super7 flipped, but not so much for a bemon, or hand painted dororu. After hunting for stupid rare figures and making friends in Japan it is 100% true that even collectors in Japan have it hard, sometimes even harder. So to get a stupid rare release like the 2 headed bemon, you have to go to the only people who can help you get that. For the green I asked Super7 first, like I do with most of my buys. When I hear back on what they can do I go into hunting mode, it so ended up that YJA was where I scored. For the red it was good friend I made who saw it at mandarake and grabbed it for me. Like mentioned there is more than 1 mandarake and all the realllllly good stuff sells in the stores. So unless your there good luck. Like I said your lucky even if you live in Japan. The buy back at mandarake is around 60-80000 yen so even they have a hard time getting hard to find stuff Wayyyy back before S7 stoked RxH it was only friends and YJA. . I remember getting up EVERY hour on the hour to check for the figs I guessed where rare. If it wasnt for YJA I wouldn't have half of my collection.
I haven't seen a lot of stuff from mandarakes site on knunts. I feel like with how massive that place must be the site sees about 5% of what flows through their doors. Also I would vouch I have never seen another URA ghost for sale to the states other than on his site (god knows I have looked). So in some sense you can't really argue that isn't a small service. Also if some of that stuff was 25% cheaper it would be gone in 2.5 seconds, unlike mandarake people aren't bringing him these toys to sell, he has to hunt, so a finders fee of 20-100 bucks doesn't seem crazy in that sense. How much would you charge for a days work? LASH what did you mean by the buy back at mandarake is around 60-80000, not familiar with how the system works, I am assuming thats a budget?
Mandarake will buy toys from you, for the green 2 headed bemon ( I think ) I was told it was about that price.
I think I paid $160-200 for mine the week they came out. This doesn't seem any worse than many of the bst sales.
I'm pretty sure Glenn is referring to the clear Bemon. I, personally, would love to have a clear unpainted Bemon more than any of the other clear versions. I would almost be willing to pay that price too, just not right this second.
from wiki: In human communities, intent, belief, resources, preferences, needs, risks, and a number of other conditions may be present and common, affecting the identity of the participants and their degree of cohesiveness. In sociology, the concept of community has caused infinite debate, and sociologists are yet to reach agreement on a definition of the term. Folks buying only to resell do not contribute or provide a service IMHO they take advantage of any situation they can profit from. this was my gripe with Chaos and his kin. The near antiquated term RFSO to me is not the price you ask so much as how you contribute to this scene, the value you place on the other members here and respect you show the community. buying a Bemon from Mandarake at a good price because its missing its header card for $75.00 then bringing it here and offering it for $220.00 is IMHO taking advantage of a situation. besides the header cards are very very cool, they are hand screen printed hand stamped and if you look real close at the inside you can most often see pencil lines where the craftsman who made it traced it out and hand cut it. there used to be a saying, "he who dies with the most toys wins." going by this thread it should be updated to read, "he who has the deepest pockets wins." Sorry but i have to retire now from this thread as it has become an unintentional moot point. Crowley said it best "Do as thou wilt." in closing i will say this, there is another retailer for Bemon that is regular & remains hidden for the SVHC.
There's always gonna be flippers because there's always going to be customers. Choose how much your willing to pay for what, and go with that. If you think you can wait it out for a better price, fuck the flippers. If you think that, flipper or no-flipper, you won't see the item again, and are willing to drop the money, go for it. If you've been here long enough you know who's a legit member and who's here to sell stuff. Sometimes it's hard to tell, there's people here who are seemingly "down" and, from my experience, are NOT. BUT, no one's going away and as long as people are WILLING to pay, they'll be here. I've bought stuff from flippers but ONLY when I found the price to be what I felt was reasonable for said product, which means NOT OFTEN. I guess what I'm saying is: Don't sweat it if you don't like them, just stick to your principles. If others are willing to buy from them (and they will be willing) that's their business.
Hows the advert on the inside cover of this issue's Kaizine,,,a big Kaiju taro advert with uncle ken? Riding a dolphin with dollar signs covering its eyes....now thats some in yer face shit right there.
