To me, we have barely scratched the surface here, and that is because there are so many sub-types of toys even in sofubi, it becomes very difficult for a one-size-fits-all answer, you almost have to go maker by maker, and it would be ideal even to probe them and get their own opinion on their work and if they see themselves as an artist. Is vintage vinyl art, probably not. Pre war tin toys, American action figures from the 80s and 90s, keshi, gacha— none of that stuff is probably art, regardless of how we might enjoy it, because it was never intended to be art in its creation. Are we talking vinyl toys from the 2000s to present day? KAWS, Murakami, Ron English, hate them if you want, but they are recognized and accomplished artists, when they make a toy it has to be art right? they are artists and making an affordable piece of sculpture for their fanbase as a toy, you can ask why does it need to be a vinyl toy, and how does that medium of toy play into their artistic vision? Why not a resin or small fiberglass sculpture edition instead of vinyl. Someone like Carlos Enriquez-Gonzales who has molds destroyed after he pulls a certain number as an edition. In his case, vinyl makes perfect sense as his aesthetic is so strongly influenced by Vinyl toys, especially Barom-1- It's impossible to me, not to see his toys as art. What about artists like T9G or Michael Lau, they might have a strong base in toys, but both have created incredibly interesting artwork outside of toys in the fine art space. Punk Drunkers, Real head, Secret Base, it's harder for me to declare these types makers/brands as artists, and label them art directors, since none of them sculpt or really paint their work, and operate store fronts selling other kinds of general merchandise and apparel as well. These are the toys I would predict will have a large trashing in the future, because there are so many of them and they are so similar, I think we've already witnessed that with SB fight figures. Don't hate me because I love fight figures and have tons. the perception has worked to my advantage. I could go on and on bringing up dozes of different makers, but I'll end on Hirota, Nag, and Ilu Ilu, rounded out by Izumonster and Delta Vinyl as probably the top 5 guys achieving crazy prices. Again, regardless of your take on them, they have all achieved incredible prices for their toys, people are paying more for these than everything but the rarest of vintage. It's hard to argue that they haven't surpassed the public perception of toy and transcended into art. I don't like it, it makes me angry, like many of you. There are other makers out there i think are just as good if not better, with no hype who can't bring in a small fraction of their prices. But you can't deny with the monetary value, it's now viewed by the general collector market as art.
Some collectors put their collections behind glass. Some art museums have exhibits of guitars or automobiles. Some art museums have Eames chairs in their collection.
I don’t think there’s much gatekeeping, but it is extremely annoying when a completely unknown artist with no evidence of making art previously goes ahead and makes a sofubi toy for $500. When I made toys for a brief time I sculpted a bit, people got to know me, and then I made my first resin toy. In terms of resin, anyone can get into it. It’s usually the first stepping stone in becoming a sofubi artist. Meanwhile there are brand new accounts already posting lottos. People buy into it, but I feel like that’s a bit of a cop-out. Who is this person? Have they done other art before? Did they even sculpt this thing? (Not saying that toy makers that hire outside sculptors are any better or worse, but most disclose that fact and give credit to the sculptor who made their vision into a toy.) I think if people can at least get a feeling of who you are and what you do, that makes things more personal, and for me, makes me more motivated to buy their stuff. But nobody is really going “YOU CAN’T MAKE SOFUBI.” It’s “YOU SHOULDN’T MAKE SOFUBI.”
I I think if someone makes a thing and it happens to be sofubi, that's fine. However we get into the question of does said thing embody the spirit of sofubi, whatever that is, and is it justified as being such. Is an artist more concerned with format or the feeling? "It's like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."
Kotorimark is an electrician by trade - he just made something that he wanted to have exist. it doesn’t have any moving parts (so an object by your definition @The Moog ) didn’t medicom make some hamburger lamps or something of that sort? also yes- an LED bulb is used as he suggests. I’ll stand by my argument - nothing matters when it comes to personal preference. Everyone will have a different idea about everything
In this space, I ask myself more and more “is this a toy?” Or just a piece of art about toys. Like most of the bootleg carded stuff or the vinyl stuff that just sets on a shelf. Is it a statue/figurine? The word “toy” has certainly be co-opted by the “higher” artworld for it’s more consumerist means. Is it for the creator or, the other to decide what an object’s presence and noun should be? Yet never detour from it’s thing-ness being an art object. Adults tend to convolute the world where as children know better about imagination and playability…Once the logic becomes super serious, I doubt if it’s fun or playful anymore… This is one of those conversations that should be taken with a grain of salt and libations. The thing I can say for certain is, the sincerity, story telling and craftsmanship vary quite a bit. And that definitely sways my opinion on price and worth.
Fnaaar fnaar! It seems these guys are achieving their pricing primarily down to the pissing contest between the new Asian wave, which generally have an equally bizarre attraction to the hot new shit that dropped yesterday over the classic (and sometimes more historically significant) earlier releases. These guys 'seem' to be buying and treating this junk as art/investments (via ticketed gallery shows etc), but if that were the case, as 'art', surely the harder to get earlier stuff should be more valuable, or at least equal. It's not a complaint . . . but new collectors baffle me!
A new colorway just shown in a gallery will hit a million yen meanwhile the colorway from a previous show will sit for months. It’s crazy.
The "unknown artist" is an interesting phenomenon. I think the esoteric nature of some toys has always intrigued collectors, or at least aficionados of indie sofubi. Perhaps not always entirely anonymous, in the past producers have shared little to nothing about who they really are, not any sort of portfolio predating their soft vinyl venture(s) and done very well for themselves. Bemon is the first that comes to mind from the early days, but they weren't charging what they do now right out the gate. It feels like every week there's some new mystery maker turning up with a lottery asking top dollar for a hunk of vinyl that came from who knows where (speaking both in terms of the person who made it and the origin of the factory it was pulled from). It definitely feels like people just trying to make a quick buck or rush to the front of the line (i.e. bypass years and years of developing a fanbase that would warrant asking such prices). Even if they do well in the short term, I think one who builds from the ground up has a better chance of long term success, developing a true following and leaving their mark in any history books.
It's interesting how this topic comes up repeatedly on Skullbrain (this recent thread comes to mind) but I think it's great we can discuss it thoughtfully. I still have things to say about Mr. Bumper but I haven't gotten my thoughts together.
I like these sorts of threads that pop up every bunch of years, because at this point I can go back and see my thoughts from 5,10 and 15 years ago and see how my tastes and attitudes have changed or stayed the same.
In the end, there is an art to everything. There is an art to living. On a cosmic scale, beyond time, if you were to look at the life of anything in a continuum, the 'worm-form' of an existence, so to speak, the patterns it creates could certainly be seen as an 'art' as well. (Is this a coherent sentence?) Trying to separate art from its constituent parts is a fun mental exercise, and perhaps an illuminating one, but I dunno if anyone has ever satisfactorily done so. At least, not in a way that can permanently change the cultural landscape, so I don't bother lol. Looking at general trends, the definition of art is only ever expanded, never contracted. Movies are now an art. Video games are now an art. Toys are now an art. An insidious example of this lies in craft, where for a long time the predominantly European high-art world did not consider china to be art, simply because European artisans could not create porcelain that could rival the quality of Chinese porcelain. (This is just a tangential footnote that I find interesting) Lots of people are talking about what art is, and lots of people doing it are smarter than me. But my question to anyone that feels like entertaining it is: what is a 'toy'? To me, a toy is a tool that provides no functionality other than one's enjoyment. It invites one to handle it, play with it, run really fast with it in your hand while going 'nyeerrrrrrrmmmmmmm' / 'woooooosh', throw it against a wall, scrape your teeth against it, ingest it to incorporate the microplastics into your DNA and become something more than human. Hope this helps!
Lots of good stuff in here, but I can keep my view short and sweet. The only differentiator between a "toy" and "art" is the intention of whomever is handling it. The whole "is it art?" debacle has been around for millennia, and I'm doubtful it will be solved on this forum. That said, I don't think the term "toy" and "art" are mutually exclusive. Why can it not be both?
I want to be buried in a tomb with my sofubi army to guard me. They can dig it all up after 500 years and call it art.
@carcinise I think I'll need you to send over your Kani toys for a 99 year sleepover. It'll help me figure out where toys stop being toys and begin being art, and vice versa . Please post a collection photo of your Kani goodness, so we can all begin to turn green, so difficult to adopt! BTW, welcome to the Boards! p.s. great visualization @Biff ! Qin Shi Huangdi died with lots of cool stuff! And I'm sure he never ran out of space to display his toys
