New Kaiju Kickstarter

Steve, you and Moonbeams must have been typing at the same time, as he kind of answers that. Just like when I first got here I didn't get all the fight figures, even though I used to collect Food Fighters as a kid it didn't really prepare me for Secret Base etc.

 

It's not as complicated as all that. One of the big reasons this place is so amazing isn't because a few people are experts on everything. It's because lots of people are experts on just one or two things. So as a whole there really isn't anything these guys don't know. That being said there is no specific thing to look for. "Kaiju" is such a broad term and this place even goes way beyond that as well. You look for what you like. Then you do research and learn more about it.

For example like someone just said most of this stuff is based on guys in rubber/latex suits. That was a huge factor in how things looked because monsters had to be able to fight in whatever show or movie was being made. No CG stuff at all so everything had to be functional. That played a huge role in everything and it's something that people pay homage to even right now when they make new toys. Lots of the most well-known vinyl makers today play to that same vibe. In part out of respect and also because it's what they grew up enjoying. Sometimes it's as simple as a crazy kaiju thing with human legs and simple boots. Or it can be just a hint with something like an outlandish creature with a tiny zipper pull on it's back. So that is one thing to look for when you first see a vinyl piece. And that is just one thing on one type of toy here. There are countless other kinds of vinyl toys that pay homage to countless other things

One last thing I'd like to mention is that anatomy is easy. Take classes and study and work at it and anyone can do anatomical sculpts/designs in their sleep. It's like math. Taking anatomy and rearranging it in a way that makes sense and looks appealing is incredibly difficult. You can't break those rules and get away with it unless you truly know them first. So while you may see something and think the anatomy sucks others can see the same thing and be in awe at how well it was deformed and twisted. I can sculpt a anatomically correct skull with my eyes closed. I couldn't sculpt a disfigured pushead skull with a gun to my head. Sometimes simplifying things is so complicated it's hard to even comprehend how some of the artists here pull it off.

 

I actually get this. I've thought about this same thing regarding many things, some people can even tell apart different types of drinking water, other people wouldn't think of wasting their time on that.
Most people that I know don't like kaiju... or get it. But I think many good points have been made, regarding why even being here.
And what I really dont get is thinking that Balzac toys don't all look the same.

And the regarding the toy being discussed here, I think work and tenacity might get you somewhere. Knowledge from the suggestions and critiques made by the more experienced is priceless.

 

If someone needs a toy 'explaining' they probably shouldn't be buying it!

Digging for info is all part of the game. Just stick to what you dig if you are unwilling to do your homework.

 

You're almost there really, you just don't realize it. Take your interest in Balzac toys. You show that to your average guy on the street and they wont get it like you don't get Kaiju. You get it because you know the history and culture behind it. You know why the anatomically deformed character has a bag over it's head etc. If you really want to get it, start at the source, Japan. learn the pop culture that created the monsters, robots and superheroes. Watch the films and old TV shows and maybe in a couple of years you'll begin to understand.

 

Well, I came here initially looking for people who were selling Balzac stuff. It's the kaiju genre itself that I personally don't get the appeal for. Nothing against it. But I'm very curious to see what drives interest in it, so I found Robert's post to be very helpful. I love Japan and am deeply connected to the country. So it's also interesting to see this underground community for foreigners with hardcore interests in something that is underground in Japan.

By "anatomically horrible" I mean this:

 

I'm not into monster movies. I think that's why I "don't get it." I'm really into Balzac and ignored their toys for the past decade. Last year I returned to the US from Japan and started really missing Japan. So I started actually collecting Balzac stuff (when I lived there it was so easy to come by that I never tried to collect, and stuff would come in and out of my music collection) and I picked up a Skullman it was all downhill from there.

I'm not waiting for anyone to call out kaiju. I meant that I've been searching through threads trying to find what people find appealing about this:
I guess if I grew up a fan of the show, I would be into it as well.

I like art and some of the figures I see here are very creative and expressive. I like the Balzac stuff because it is a physical extension of the music.

 

Wow, I really appreciate this insight. It might seem like common sense here, but as a total outsider, I would never have guessed that about the suits and modern stuff paying homage to the suits. Now I'll know what to look for.

I'm not good at communication (in the doghouse tonight), so I hope this isn't mistook as being snarky or anything. I really appreciate this post.

 

I think they look the same. They all have the same face, and each part of a series is caste from the same mold. Still like them.

 

i'm always amazed to see some one sculpting with this feet i think you should work on the shape a little bit before post any pics.....

 

Wow... This thread got wonky quick! I just did not see this as a destination when I started reading it. I have lurked here forever, but I am trying to take a more active hand in this community. You guys are all so damn knowledgeable it can be a bit intimidating.... And then to see people pop up and say some really, surprisingly, shockingly not-so-knowledgable things... Well, wow again I guess.
I had planned on ranting about the statement that one would claim to be a punk fan, and in fact be able to tell good punk from bad, but then going on to champion Balzac... But then as I was typing and fuming the real weird thing hit me, Columbo style;
That one would use employment as a 'perception researcher' as proof of ones superior aesthetic sense. And that despite the fact that this community was quite literally formed to celebrate this particular art form, that with enough digging, evidence could be found to prove how truly fucked up kaiju really are. That time was admittedly spent searching for other like minded individuals. That is god damn weird. Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't research into perception show you that each person perceives in an entirely individual way? Except maybe in communities built to celebrate a certain aesthetic sensibility...

Point 2, a more brief point, I shall use my training and daily work as an artist to tell you this... The proportions on the figure you posted... They are not horrible. It is called stylized. Despite not being the natural proportions of a human, they are quite harmonious. I would expect a fan of figures with giant heads, lanky arms and teeny little legs to know this.

Point 3, I would very much like to go back to the original thought of this thread. I am planning on doing my very own figure(s). I am starting work on it now. There will be no kickstarter. It will be a process involving my own blood, sweat, tears and money. And if it fails, that will be mine also. Some of you indicated experience in production. I would love some pointers on how to go about getting something made and rough costs to be expected. I do not expect anyone to break every facet it down for me, just point me in a direction where I won't get ripped off. Factory production is a long way off... I will be going about this the opposite way of the OP... I will be using short run resin, and custom one offs to build capital for an eventual true production run... And no sculptures will see daylight until they are ready. And just to be clear that I am not taking a more active role at SB in order to promote this project, it is not kaiju (or *shiver* urban vinyl) related.

 

Please quote me so I know what you are talking about. I didn't mean to attack, insult, or show any disrespect to the medium or fans. I thought I was asking an innocent question. Nor did I claim to have a "superior sense of aesthetics." That would be an asinine thing to say and completely alien to whom I am as a person.

Looking back, "horrible anatomy" was not a good choice of words. I was referring to figures that were made to be mass produced cheaply when the technology was relevantly new. This is the style I had in mind:


I wasn't saying that everything is horrible. I either miscommunicated my post or you're interpreting it out of context.

(I do like to be silly in my posts, but I don't think I was being silly here. It seems like people like to get an idea of someone and lump them into a category based off a few posts).

 

I think you misunderstand what I have written.

I am not attacking the art. I will be careful with these words so there is no longer any miscommunication.

The picture I posted, is what I believe to be have been an early figure in toy making, which I chose because it exemplifies distorted anatomy. Similar distorted anatomy is purposely made in some of the modern soft vinyl figures posted on this board. As an outsider, I wondered what appealed to collectors about these figures, so I asked my question.

It was very interesting to learn that toys are made this way as a sort of homage to their predecessors that were designed to emulate a human in a rubber suit. I was satisfied with that answer. The backlash this question is receiving is astonishing me. Is it wrong not to understand why people like something and then ask why?

Again, I must reiterate, I meant absolutely no disrespect to the artform, collectors, or artists. I apologize for my rough language.

Here is my original post, for contextual purposes:

I've already posted a few examples of vintage pieces that I think are anatomically bad. I did not realize that they were modeled after people in rubber suits. With the line "'m critical of the anatomy, but I find it no different than the vintage Japanese stuff people collect which is pretty anatomically horrible in general" I meant to say to the creator, "Although it doesn't appeal to me, I don't see much of a difference between this and the other stuff you like, so good job!"

It seems that people are offended that I don't get Kaiju?

 

Probably more perplexed why you're highlighting your lack of appreciation or respect for the majorities opinions on a kaiju orientated forum and expecting a positive response!

There was a real similar thread over on KR a few years back . . . you might be better suited 'over there'.

As a polite aside . . . I'd probably stop typing now!

 

Where did I say I disrespect anything? Is this a prank on me?

 

I see, you are saying that I should stop typing. I'm about done with this conversation, but it stinks rotten, though.

All I did was voice an opinion, ask a question, and try to praise someone's effort.

My words, which are plain as daylight and re-quoted above, have been interpreted by some as an attack on this artform. I try to explain that there is no attack. I am not expecting any positive reactions, just neutral conversation.

You have made no secret your animosity towards me here and at the Balzac forum this past week. Personally, I find that a let down. We don't even know each other and I always admired your collection and posts. Why not get to know someone first before making attacks? The only reason why I'm typing is that I feel offended when someone 1) puts words in my mouth that are not true and 2) tells me to shut up about it.

That said, I'm done. Think what you will.

 

if only.

 

I think Brian briefly explains the esthetics of Sofubi toys here that made sense to me. It's about a minute in. I hope it's helps a bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgsQiBwCOIY&list=PLXGF0gJEot0trYs4iNc9oWMYaypYPCT88

 

I have just read through the shit storm going on here and i honestly think its a bit unconstructive, to say the least.

I just thought i'd give me opinion on the figure I really love toys, anything from the classic lines such as MOTU, TMNT, Toxic Avengers to Cure Boogie Men, Balzac toys, Rangeas and all that.
Im not gonna call myself an expert on designing toys - i have only been doing a few figures over the last year. But i have been working on different stop motion films (for a danish flm company) and the one figure i actually got produced (In rather limited numbers) sold pretty fast.
I still stand behind that design 100% - its called Mutant Steve for my (slowly growing) series of figures called Mutant Bastards.
I'm not trying to come here saying im an expert or that im an authority. I think people who have been into collecting toys for a long time, have much more knowledge and better grounded oppnions than most people within the business, because they study toys every day.

Well.. I must say, I really think its a weak design - it doesn't stand out from anything at all. It could be a (most forgettable) bad guy from the Powers Rangers TV series, poorly executed. I really miss som character, some details... some sort of story to it. If i found this in a store, i wouldn't notice it at all. And i know, that these characters are often very simple in the design - but this just doesnt do anything for me.
I like it when characters have some sort of theme, like the eye-monster from Power Rangers, Mutagen Man (with the guts floating inside), Elegab's Tonneran (with the road theme).. and if you don't want to do a theme, at least do an excellent design like Cure Boogie-Men, Rangeas and stuff like that. I really think you should research you favorite characters and don't hesitate to steal ideas, as long as you work on them and make them your own (My character Mutant Steve, is HEAVILY inspired by Mutagen Man). Do a gazillion sketches and studies on your character and BAM it'll come.


I think its great that you want to do you own toy! I really do, i takes guts - but give it a bit more time and work. Also, i would suck to put a lot of money, time and effort into something that you couldn't sell.

I don't hope i sound patronizing, thats not my intention. English is only my second language (Im from Denmark) - and again, this is just my opnion!!

Oh, heres is picture of Mutant Steve, by the way (Sorry about the shameless plug). I realize it havent got much to do with sofubi, but i think it backs up my point OK:



If you wan't some help or feeback on designs, i'd be happy to help!

 

that clear head w/ brain was a stroke of toy design genius!

 

Just want to say i really enjoyed the first couple pages of this thread. And boo velvet's comment specifically. i think anybody thinking about making a new toy should check this thread out for multiple reasons. It's all there, well mostly part of it is anyways. A few things I am thinking about as my own kickstarter wraps up. I think it would take close to 10,000 to get this done. Not to get the toy made, but to get it done and funded through kickstarter in this fashion. Keep in mind that kickstarter/amazon takes 8-10% so that's 1k right there, then let's say he gets 50 backers... that's 50 boxes to ship, and so on. i do think his rewards were pretty bad, and some other things were a bit off. asking for more money to do glow or glitter seems silly. I guess some places would charge more for glitter as the molds need to be cleaned more than normal afterwards (that is my understanding at least).

I like the mention about getting yourself partway there. I asked for way less than i needed, but it was driven out of pure fear that i wouldn't make the first goal, since it's an all or nothing deal.

Story... this is something i struggle with all the time, not because i don't have the stories or a good background to the character, just that they are stuck in my head so nobody else knows about them. I think story/background is pretty dang important. And if your dude looks like some veiny ultraman dude with not a lot of detail or expression, then the story should come first either through comics, or film, or loads of imagery. Anybody can sketch out a tough dude in their notebook and then say let's make a toy. Ya gotta show your dude in action, and like more than a few people mentioned, build up to something giant like this project.

Ok... I think that's my 2 cents. Don't give up. Come at this again and again until you get it.