A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio

Discussion in 'Japan Toys' started by mondocoyote, Aug 6, 2009.

  1. JoeMan

    JoeMan Mini Boss

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    It should be changed to Nagnagnag and be left alone. To me titles should be clear and simple, for easy searching and reference years from now when they've dried up and are on page 170.
     
  2. 666doll

    666doll Mini Boss

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    I neither love nor hate Nag. I own no Nag. Tell me you respect me D. Say it. Say it ;)
     
  3. audiodifficulties

    audiodifficulties S7 Royalty

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    Are we placing bets if the next round of nags come with a bottle and then you have to feed and change their wet diapers? Cause that's what I assume the new title alludes to.
     
  4. peppsee

    peppsee Toy Prince

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    nagnagnag
    ragragrag
    bragbragbrag

    art or fart I don't give a shit... I just want one
     
  5. greenslime

    greenslime Toy Prince

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)


    [​IMG]
     
  6. audiodifficulties

    audiodifficulties S7 Royalty

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    If you keep playing with it it will cease to be art!
     
  7. TiredChildren

    TiredChildren Administrator Staff Member

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Greg Mishka

    Greg Mishka Addicted

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    Ill respond to everyone. The idiots the trolls the cheerleaders everyone. Who the fuck are you again?
     
  9. audiodifficulties

    audiodifficulties S7 Royalty

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    I'll never understand business men insulting their customers but you see it over and over again on this board. Let's call it the Circus Punks Phenomenon.

     
  10. akum6n

    akum6n Vintage

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    I invented the piano key necktie. What have you done? Nothing! NOTHINGGGG!!!!
     
  11. Greg Mishka

    Greg Mishka Addicted

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    He disses my brand (doesnt even spell it right) and I ask who the fuck he is? how is that insulting him?
     
  12. Daimyo

    Daimyo Side Dealer

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    Sure baby, I'll call you in the morning. ;)
     
  13. spungee

    spungee Toy Prince

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root

    this, this, oh this, bunnyboy. i am not persuaded by the repeated mention of the 2-hour-eyes-paint-job that that qualifies it for "art-toy pricing."
    seriously, that's not all that long, particularly if you are a perfectionist. it's certainly not a very compelling argument for why the thing costs stupid money.
     
  14. Dean

    Dean Prototype

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    Arguments about what constitutes art or not-art are never going to be resolved at Skullbrain or any other internet forum. Anyone who has delved into art theory understands that there is no one universal approach to aesthetics, and thank Godzilla for that! Even within the framework of a single culture, there may be many valid mismatching ways of viewing art and its contexts.

    I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion but FWIW Mishka's defense of Nag-as-art was valid and intelligent. Although I can't read minds, my guess is that the heated objections are due to associations that a lot of people have about "art" being rarified, class-associated, gallery or museum-bound and elitist. Or maybe it's that most of us have an allergic reaction to the bulk of what are generally labelled "art toys" these days, being what SB'ers associate with the ChildRobot scene. (Never mind that some heavy duty kaiju collectors also have a lot of "KR" stuff.) Or maybe it's just the escalating prices.

    Whatever the case, consider the time-honored tradition of well-crafted artistic dolls in Japan ... many are not meant as "toys" for children at all, but are very expensive collectors' items for adults, often kept stashed away in wooden boxes, only to be brought out for occasional viewing and appreciation. I think there's a case to be made that Shigeru's creations have as much of a connection to that tradition as they do to vinyl kaiju and contemporary sofubi toys, pachi, DIY, licensed, etc. In that regard, "dollies" may be considered as accurate to some as it would be flippant or even critical to others. Value and meaning are often in the eye of the beholder. Don't we all know that? One man's grail Bemon is another's messed-up wax meltdown.

    Say what you will about the hype, the scene, the flippers, the lotteries etc. That's another can of worms. But if someone views Nags as being art or artistic toys, I honestly think they'd have stronger arguments in their favor than those who insist that they're only toys, period. Nag toys may not be to my taste but I'd be a fool to assert that there's nothing to them but hype. Hope that makes sense.
     
  15. zapatoloco

    zapatoloco Comment King

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    Thanks for being calm, kind and making a whole lot of sense.
     
  16. phantomfauna

    phantomfauna Side Dealer

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    Oh no!..Bro disses your brand and spells MAWANKA wrong. Grow the fuck up Greg.
     
  17. DYBBUKIM

    DYBBUKIM Post Pimp

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    I cannot believe I am on this side of the argument, but what I always thought was unfair was the lack of access to these toys, unless, of course you live in NY or Tokyo. That and the unrelenting hyping of these toys. Now, given that the price is high, the same clique that dominated collecting these is likely broken, outside those that get theirs as "gifts". I have only succeeded in all these years in getting one Nag at "retail", and that was from the most recent release in SF where 4 people arrived for 4 toys.

    Any artist/company is allowed to set their own price. If Shig just threw these all on YJA or Ebay himself, he would undoubtedly get more money. A higher price, too, as many have noted, discourages flipping. I am glad that Shig is profiting now more, and taking the money rather than the flippers, and appreciate that he could probably get even more if he were greedy.

    Of course, I support an inexpensive unpainted unlimited run, or several. But, if Shig did that, how long would it be until these toys plummeted in price, once an unpainted one is on every shelf? These are not the collectors' decision: they are Shig's alone. We can only choose to buy or not, provided access is present.

    Thoughts?
     
  18. Anti Social Andy

    Anti Social Andy Die-Cast

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    I think you have too much money and a bipolar personality!
     
  19. stinkupuss

    stinkupuss Toy Prince

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    scary andy has too many fight figures
     
  20. Aldo

    Aldo Comment King

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    This thread is embarrassing. Just reading thru the comments and watching adult men gripe and cry over this "toy/art/art-toy" is just ridiculous. Some of you guys are just going in circles and coming off like total pussies.
     
  21. Slack

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    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

     
  22. onibaba5

    onibaba5 Post Pimp

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    I think this is an intersting argument but where I disagree is that almost out of the gate and for whatever reason, Mishka became the marketing, sales rep, distributor of Shigeru's creation and essentially imo, took over it's identity. So who's "the artist" here? What initially looked to be an interesting vinyl creation became...well it became the hyped, dressed up dollie that it became. Was this really a collab with Shigeru, with two artists? It seems awful difficult to separate all the hype and nonsense and call it art at this point.
     
  23. HBCoffin

    HBCoffin Addicted

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    Never heard of performance art? Our little Boryoku Genjin just keeps transcending. :lol:

    Kidding aside, my feelings regarding NagNagNag, sales methods, pricing and availability have always been bipolar to say the least. What is fair, what isn't? What's right, what's wrong? Who's right, who's wrong? The answer has become so blurred since the beginning of all this, it's hard for me to say. I haven't been here since the beginning, and I can't say I really know what the hell I'm talking about, 'cause I really don't most of the time, but here's how I see it... I've been here long enough to know that this community was built upon by collectors who collect for the sake of collecting. Unlike that practiced elsewhere, it wasn't about lining up for the latest blind box series at your local distributor only to express your bragging rights after obtaining a rare commodity, only to throw it up for sale at an extreme markup, and to top it off, be praised for it. Such practices were frowned upon here. The community was here to appreciate toys, share a common interest, help each other to obtain desired articles through fair trade and sales. No gimmicks. These were toys, not works of "art," no need to pay high prices for something vinyl or plastic, "it's just a toy." People trying to manipulate the market in such a way were profiteering off the honest work of toy makers who were in it for the love of the hobby, not the money. This has been the basis for the ethics practiced and promoted throughout the community. I think we should continue to practice and promote these principles, however, as a community, we have to come to accept a harsh reality.

    These toys are not necessities. There is no amendment granting us "the right to affordable Nags at retail," or any other toy for that matter. It is the right of the producer, or the "artist," to determine a price point they consider to be fair based on just that, current demand, or trends within the market. A poor decision could lead to failure, loss of profit, or a disgruntled community, but it does not leave people dying in the streets due to insufficient funds for obtaining some life sustaining miracle doll we all secretly need to survive. There's a lot worse going on in the world than a few people trying to make profit off toys that would be considered, by most people, "fucking expensive" to begin with. These guys aren't manipulating gas prices, they're fucking toys, "art," "collectibles," whatever you want to call them. We don't need them, we want them. That comes with a price unfortunately, as does everything else people might want, be it fancy cars or clothing, but don't absolutely need. No, most people I know wouldn't pay $850.00 for a NagNagNag doll, but they probably wouldn't cough up $50.00 either, what does that say about us all? We're willing to spend thousands of dollars on crap we don't need, but once the crap we don't need gets too expensive, we cry bloody murder. It's quite pathetic when you think about it. I'm sad admit that I myself have done such whining, on various occasions, but for the most part, I try to whine in the privacy of my own home, because it's a first world problem people. There's enough whining on the internet as it is. This community should strive for more with the way we hold ourselves so highly over others.

    As DYBBUKIM stated, it is favorable for the profit to end up in the hands of the producer/artist, and we can only hope this will discourage resellers. I do believe this community, should, as it always has, attempt to discourage (immediate/strictly intentional) reselling. It is a dishonest practice and should be frowned upon as it does nothing for this hobby but make it less enjoyable for everyone, but when a producer/artist tries to get the money he/she deserves, it should not be seen as a crime or lack of morals, regardless of what 3rd party is involved. Accessibility has been my primary gripe with these toys as well, it is the primary variable when the aftermarket price is determined, but I have come to accept that it is not something that can always be influenced by the community. Some toy makers will here our cries and change their business plan accordingly, which is very respectable and appreciated, but it doesn't make people like Shigeru any less respectable if he so chooses not to.
     
  24. BloodDrinker6969

    BloodDrinker6969 Die-Cast

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    Can't...read....walls...of text.
     
  25. Dean

    Dean Prototype

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    A Nag Pa I Root (NAGNAGNAG) and der Angora Patio
    Re: A Nag Pa I Root (Dollie Piss Fight)

    I don't really have a super-passionate argument here, and I sincerely appreciate your response, Onibaba5, but I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for just a sec. :twisted:

    The whole history of art is connected to patronage and representation. Without the Vatican, we might not remember Caravaggio. Without Leo Castelli's advocacy, Andy Warhol might not have made his mark. Without people willing to act as intermediary dealers for Nags and willing to pay the high prices for them, Shig might have shrugged the project off by now. Ultimately I think all this stuff is separate from whether or not Nags are "art." I should probably just shut up since I don't really have a dog in this game. Stepping back to the sidelines, now...

    "Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." - Publilius Syrus
     

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